You may not have choice. I didn't in the past when a company decided to go private...
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You may not have choice. I didn't in the past when a company decided to go private...
Krugerrand
Meow
How would that affect employees? Elon often talks about how Tesla employees get stock options. He’d have to cone upcwith something for them if he took it private.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
I don't see it as a very likely scenario, at least in the next few years. Where would Elon get the cash from to buy out the shares? What will Tesla use to pay off the convertible debts?
K_Dizzle
Member
Around two months ago there was a small time hedge fund guy who publicly used his own 500k to short tesla. I dont remember the name but the media ran the headlines pretty loud. Does anyone remember who the guy was?
John Thompson of Vilas Capital Management (I asked Google).
Employees can have stock options in private companies. Just look at Space X; they give stock options.
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Didn't they say at the Share holder's meeting that China news was coming very soon? I'm really hoping for something by the end of next week. Let's bring on the squeeze!
Short interest has increased by 1 percent, but the days to cover has increased to 6.3 days... it was 4.9 day to cover last week... I think that the higher SP is the cause, anyone have an idea about that? I also noticed volume has been very high since June 6th, with the exception of the 8th.
Given these indications, the short squeeze has not started... btw short tsla stock is at 31% of float.....
given that insiders control 25.43% and institutions own about 60%, this leaves 15% of the stock for the rest of us and the shorts, who control twice that amount... which means, likely there are at least 20% of the shorted stock owned by institutions. I am not sure If this makes sense, but if true, I think it means the squeeze will be on a programmed value, likely (a total guess) at 8% loss somewhere near $375... which would be... $405
I am guessing... what do you think?
Given these indications, the short squeeze has not started... btw short tsla stock is at 31% of float.....
given that insiders control 25.43% and institutions own about 60%, this leaves 15% of the stock for the rest of us and the shorts, who control twice that amount... which means, likely there are at least 20% of the shorted stock owned by institutions. I am not sure If this makes sense, but if true, I think it means the squeeze will be on a programmed value, likely (a total guess) at 8% loss somewhere near $375... which would be... $405
I am guessing... what do you think?
Bet TSLA
Active Member
Rope. Elon's buying rope and letting the short sellers hang themselves with it.
To actually effect a short squeeze there has to be a precipitating event along with something that makes stock as scarce as unobtainium. So Elon is making sure that all his shares are loaned out to shorts, the more the better. Then when he announces whatever awesome things he'll announce -- a new gigafactory in China paid for by Tencent and leased to Tesla, 5000+/week Model 3 delivered sustainably, and a huge new energy project -- he'll also recall all his shares. The result will be as you can imagine. The man knows how to play these games.
To actually effect a short squeeze there has to be a precipitating event along with something that makes stock as scarce as unobtainium. So Elon is making sure that all his shares are loaned out to shorts, the more the better. Then when he announces whatever awesome things he'll announce -- a new gigafactory in China paid for by Tencent and leased to Tesla, 5000+/week Model 3 delivered sustainably, and a huge new energy project -- he'll also recall all his shares. The result will be as you can imagine. The man knows how to play these games.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
I suppose that's likely, but I don't know how the rules are written. Care to cite chapter and verse?
McMountain
Member
I am not at all sure about insider rules but my guess is, that if something happens that he has already announced, it would not be insider trading.
- 5k per week - announced multiple times, so no insider knowledge if it actually happens
- China factory - more or less announced, no insider knowledge if it actually happens
- big energy project - not announced, so insider knowledge - forbidden
- and for fun: less than 5k per week - insider knowledge - forbidden to trade on it
- 5k per week - announced multiple times, so no insider knowledge if it actually happens
- China factory - more or less announced, no insider knowledge if it actually happens
- big energy project - not announced, so insider knowledge - forbidden
- and for fun: less than 5k per week - insider knowledge - forbidden to trade on it
I think Tesla is a slam-dunk now, I have no fears for its future or success, the other manufacturers are still nowhere.
The personal risk I see is indeed some kind of scenario where I would be forced to sell, either Tesla going back private, or some kind of take-over. I would be very angry if that were to happen, but I think the probability is very low.
Was some talk up-thread about cobalt and the trade-off in charging times, with owners accepting the longer time as most charging is done at home anyway. This is a tricky thing to communicate to the non-EV-owning wider public. I remember back when I bought my first Tesla in 2013, I was fretting about where I could charge the car - it seems really dumb looking back, but it wasn't until I got my car home, plugged it in and had a big "AHA!" moment, realising only then, that there really was no need to charge anywhere else, except for road-trip or exceptional circumstances. Even after that, for the first year or so, I was obsessed with charging it where-ever I could, these days I don't bother most of the time, even if I have the opportunity.
The personal risk I see is indeed some kind of scenario where I would be forced to sell, either Tesla going back private, or some kind of take-over. I would be very angry if that were to happen, but I think the probability is very low.
Was some talk up-thread about cobalt and the trade-off in charging times, with owners accepting the longer time as most charging is done at home anyway. This is a tricky thing to communicate to the non-EV-owning wider public. I remember back when I bought my first Tesla in 2013, I was fretting about where I could charge the car - it seems really dumb looking back, but it wasn't until I got my car home, plugged it in and had a big "AHA!" moment, realising only then, that there really was no need to charge anywhere else, except for road-trip or exceptional circumstances. Even after that, for the first year or so, I was obsessed with charging it where-ever I could, these days I don't bother most of the time, even if I have the opportunity.
More or less. Insiders are not allowed to make money based on insider information. China factory is publicly known, however the financial terms are not. Elon is not stupid and they do have legal team. I suspect the negotiation about the China factory has not finished so Elon himself doesn't have any insider information.
Yeah, but Dana couldn't resist sticking the knife in his back at the end with a totally irrelevant statement:
“I’m deeply grateful for your many contributions to our mission,” wrote Musk, who purchased $24.9 million worth of Tesla shares Tuesday. “It is very difficult to say goodbye.”
Bet TSLA
Active Member
Sorry, you'll have to do better than that to support your assertion. Recalling one's shares (meaning making them no longer available to be borrowed by short sellers) doesn't involve trading. If done after the announcements of various sorts are made, then there's no insider information involved. I'm quite sure that Elon wouldn't do anything that isn't scrupulously legal, but people who are counting on regular and normal trading conditions may very well be blind-sided.
So chapter and verse from the actual rules please, preferably with relevant case law. Otherwise I believe you're just as ignorant as I am. While Elon, I am quite sure, has the means and motivation to know exactly what he's allowed to do. And he has the smarts to know how to best use his capabilities to create an epic short squeeze. Remember, while he's often late to deliver, he always delivers what he says he will.
I really liked this bit too:
"The company won’t be able to succeed in its goal—to get the world to transition to clean cars and battery-powered buildings—if it’s unable to put an an end to an era of regularly burning through $1 billion dollars a quarter."
I think 2017 annual loss was something like 2.2 Bn. And you know that's like regularly burning 1Bn per quarter.
Well, if you round up to the nearest whole Billion (after calculating quarterly : 2.2/4 = 0.55 rounded up to 1) ...
I am not sure changing the availability of shares available for loan is trading, or has any need for insider information at all.
According to what I read on the internet, shares sold short is public. Float is public. Any large shareholder who wants to change liquidity in the market can do that.
1) Companies buy their shares back all the time. They seem to announce this.
2) Elon has announced that he is trying to execute a short squeeze. Being pretty transparent about it.
Both 1 and 2 impact the stock price.
Does anyone know where the short seller stock liquidity /availability is coming from?
I know it is coming from people who own shares and would like to see the share price go up.
Could most of the short liquidity be from Elon’s shares? He needs an income stream.
Note: my knowledge of securities law is close to zero.
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