[UK centred discussion] The cat is out of the bag. True FSD will never happen for cars below HW4

[yessuz]

Yeah....duh. Elon is a marketer scam artist.

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worst thing is - All other AP equivalents (by all, I mean ALL) automatically re-enable itself after lane change. but not Tesla. for this you need EAP ))

 

[yessuz]

I guess it wasn't just the car that couldn't read the signs back in 2020 then

it still can't read signs, at some extent, in 2023

 

[lowtek]

HW4 does not mean HW3 won't run FSD software ... this is like saying an iPhone 14 can't run the Tesla app because Apple is about to release the iPhone 15 ... HW4 is just their next generation custom silicone and new cameras.

 

[Dilly]

Whilst Musk’s statement of “no retrofit” may or may not hold water, the U.K. has contract laws which will will be very testing for Tesla.
I for one, will put them to the test this year.
One might say “coming soon…”

 

[lowtek]

Whilst Musk’s statement of “no retrofit” may or may not hold water, the U.K. has contract laws which will will be very testing for Tesla.
I for one, will put them to the test this year.
One might say “coming soon…”

Those leaked pics seem to indicate that the B pillars are wider to fit the new camera assembly ... not sure how they can retrofit B pillars ... but all Tesla has to do is make sure FSD remains compatible with HW3, which they will do to satisfy the lawyers.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I believe EAP is now available in the US

It has been for at least 2 months..............

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Those leaked pics seem to indicate that the B pillars are wider to fit the new camera assembly ... not sure how they can retrofit B pillars ... but all Tesla has to do is make sure FSD remains compatible with HW3, which they will do to satisfy the lawyers.

I was told by a mobile repair guy that the car is very modular in that cameras can be swapped in and out in a matter of minutes sort of like a usb drive or the like. Probably a couple of hours at a service center

 

[herrlich98]

I agree with much of the sentiments in this thread. I think "FSD" and "Full Self Driving" are very misleading terms. *If* Tesla meant literally FSD they would have said SAE Level 3/4/5 driving. I am guessing if you carefully read (in a way a lawyer would) anything that is legally binding (owners manual and what was on the web during a car purchase) I'm guessing Tesla is very careful about using terms that aren't well defined like "FSD" which strictly speaking can mean lots of things.

 

[lowtek]

I was told by a mobile repair guy that the car is very modular in that cameras can be swapped in and out in a matter of minutes sort of like a usb drive or the like. Probably a couple of hours at a service center

I wouldn't put much faith into what mobile repair guys say, they are the last to know, Tesla is as secretive internally as they are to the public.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

True FSD..yeah, really? I can see a level that allows proper motorway journeys without sudden freakish panička. I can see a version that allows a taxi service along main city streets. But comin to your door via double parked streets with a single carriageway and making decisions on when to pull into a gap to allow a head-on car to pass, or when to give way and reverse to a passing option...nah, not gonna happen with hw4 or HW5. And as for finding it's way from say rural Wales to rural Norfolk with singla track roads, potholes, straight sections with unsighted dips....

Let's put it this way. Manhattan Island was originally populated by the Dutch in lower upper Manhattan, Narrow streets cobble stone (yeah still). When the
Brits took over they made sure the middle of the island was north/south/east/west numbered strrets. So FSD would PROBABLY navigate midtown (average traffic speed < 10 mph) and opposed to upper lower Manhattan. So I can see FSD having a tough time in certain EU countries

 

[Jason71]

HW4 does not mean HW3 won't run FSD software ... this is like saying an iPhone 14 can't run the Tesla app because Apple is about to release the iPhone 15 ... HW4 is just their next generation custom silicone and new cameras.

Sure. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

 

[Dilly]

Those leaked pics seem to indicate that the B pillars are wider to fit the new camera assembly ... not sure how they can retrofit B pillars ... but all Tesla has to do is make sure FSD remains compatible with HW3, which they will do to satisfy the lawyers.

Yes. If it works, fine. But city streets isn’t in the U.K. yet and here, ”coming soon” doesn’t cut it!

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I wouldn't put much faith into what mobile repair guys say, they are the last to know, Tesla is as secretive internally as they are to the public.

Well I was told by another mobile guy who repaired my window buttons that Tesla used to send service guys to Telsa "college" where they broke down
the whole car, so there is some institutional knowledge there

 

[Jason71]

Let's put it this way. Manhattan Island was originally populated by the Dutch in lower upper Manhattan, Narrow streets cobble stone (yeah still). When the
Brits took over they made sure the middle of the island was north/south/east/west numbered strrets. So FSD would PROBABLY navigate midtown (average traffic speed < 10 mph) and opposed to upper lower Manhattan. So I can see FSD having a tough time in certain EU countries

unfortunately we didn't apply the same kind of order to ANY of our own cities

 

[lowtek]

Well I was told by another mobile guy who repaired my window buttons that Tesla used to send service guys to Telsa "college" where they broke down
the whole car, so there is some institutional knowledge there

That doesn't mean that they were privy to details about HW4 to which I seriously doubt considering how Tesla does things.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

That doesn't mean that they were privy to details about HW4 to which I seriously doubt considering how Tesla does things.

My point is that they said the car was built with the idea of replacing components without having to do any major revisions to the car

 

[yessuz]

My point is that they said the car was built with the idea of replacing components without having to do any major revisions to the car

Sure. Try to get AMD Ryzen on tour older M3 )))

 

[LiamPope]

My point is that they said the car was built with the idea of replacing components without having to do any major revisions to the car

You can design for future upgradeability to a degree. But there comes a point where future needs just couldn't be foreseen or accommodated, then your upgrade path ends and you need a new start. Things like pillar cameras with heating and fans, new camera locations, higher bandwidth connectivity, etc that may be part of HW4 might trigger that point.

 

[PITA]

FSD ... HA!

I'd settle for Full Myself Driving without interference for a start... how much would that cost me?

I swear more at the car than other road users some days.

 

[lowtek]

My point is that they said the car was built with the idea of replacing components without having to do any major revisions to the car

Sadly, whoever "they" are apparently was talking out of their a$$.

The only free updates are through software, these cars aren't built to swap components at Tesla's expense, they are built to sell units. Guaranteed there is very little thought put into retrofitting when they are engineering the vehicles for the assembly line, that wouldn't benefit Tesla very much in the current EV landscape.

Sure, you can probably buy upgrades if they are compatible with your car, but according to the rumor mill and leaks, the camera housings in HW4 are apparently a lot bigger than HW3.

There's speculation that the $15,000 price of FSD is to include retrofits, but they have officially announced HW4 cannot be retrofit.

I speculate that the $15,000 FSD price is to slow down the purchase by customers until they get closer to where they want to be with FSD, thereby limiting their liability.