UK FSD Discussion

[zoros]

Why is everybody still talking about FSD in the UK?
Autonomous driving globally is going to take years of trial and error on controlled surfaces and inside controlled areas.
In the UK, the state of our roads (from poor markings to cluttered A roads) will exacerbate this even further.
Forget the car and its technology - we know we're getting close to autonomy - but legislation in the UK to allow FSD is years and years away. People who think otherwise and who spend thousands buying into it have more money than sense.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Driver assist

FSD from Tesla has never promised to be anything more than level 2. You’re confused.

The question asked was would you pay.. I said no unless it could be L4 on motorways or between the pub and home as that’s what would offer value. I’ve also differentiated what a drive assist and self driving should mean

Do I think Tesla will offer that anytime soon.. not a chance hence and why I said no to buying.

Tesla talk of robotaxi, even the promo video from 2016 shows L4+ features with the car picking someone up, driving them to work and then going off to park. Their current wording is driver assist but that’s not their end game, it’s also not something I personally think they’ll achieve with the current hardware.

 

[Billbrown1982]

Tesla has never claimed FSD is anything more than level 2. You’re getting confused with the literal interpretation of a name of the product.

Do you really think Mountain Dew is a bottle of Mountain Dew?

Depends, if I buy one in the states - 100%

If I buy one in the UK? Hell no because its not allowed to be made with the same ingredients due to ..... you guessed it......regulations.

I'm being pedantic but you really picked the wrong product to compare against

 

[LiamPope]

FSD from Tesla has never promised to be anything more than level 2. You’re confused.

Tesla has promised self parking, picking you up and going to work as a robotaxi. None of that is level 2 only.

 

[JupiterMan]

but legislation in the UK to allow FSD is years and years away. People who think otherwise and who spend thousands buying into it have more money than sense.

Actually, the bill to allow autonomous cars in the UK has had its first reading in the House of Lords a few weeks ago, and all going well, may become law in this session of parliament.

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3506

UNECE rules to allow it may also apply from Summer 2024, failing that January 2025.

 

[Bouba]

Actually, the bill to allow autonomous cars in the UK has had its first reading in the House of Lords a few weeks ago, and all going well, may become law in this session of parliament.

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3506

UNECE rules to allow it may also apply from Summer 2024, failing that January 2025.

Let’s just hope it’s not limited to dual carriageway, without tunnels and roadworks, in the dry, only in a traffic jam below 30 mph

 

[JupiterMan]

Let’s just hope it’s not limited to dual carriageway, without tunnels and roadworks, in the dry, only in a traffic jam below 30 mph

new legislation does not include such limitations. its the whole enchilada.

 

[WllXM]

Actually, the bill to allow autonomous cars in the UK has had its first reading in the House of Lords a few weeks ago, and all going well, may become law in this session of parliament.

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3506

UNECE rules to allow it may also apply from Summer 2024, failing that January 2025.

Now, even if it becomes law, we'll need to see if Tesla will be happy to release a specific UK version before the rest of UNECE, I personally doubt it.

Furthermore, I suppose there are notable code changes to accommodate for RHD, and that will be a reason alone for us to be served last, just like with cars re: manufacturing process...

 

[zoros]

never ever in a million years is the UK going to give permission for FSD in 2024,25 or even 35!
What you will see is derivatives of the following:
Controlled zones - areas of well defined road markings and street layouts (like Milton Keynes) where the car can safely 'latch onto' the visual cues.
ALL introductory FSD legislation will make 'following through with your hands' - compulsory.
Motorways only.
Some dual carriageways.
Speed restrictions.
Weather restrictions.

The web is littered with videos of failed FSD trips in the US - and their roads are far, far superior to ours (on the whole).

The day you get into your car where you plug in FSD and read the papers are atleast a decade+ off!

 

[GRiLLA]

new legislation does not include such limitations. its the whole enchilada.

The bill that's now in the Lords doesn't state either way, all it states is that the Secretary of State for Transport would bring forward the standards that they intend to use to assess self-driving to the commons at a later point. It's really just a statutory instrument to allow self-driving and define the offenses of misleading the process or using an automated vehicle in an unsafe state.

 

[GRiLLA]

never ever in a million years is the UK going to give permission for FSD in 2024,25 or even 35!
What you will see is derivatives of the following:
Controlled zones - areas of well defined road markings and street layouts (like Milton Keynes) where the car can safely 'latch onto' the visual cues.
ALL introductory FSD legislation will make 'following through with your hands' - compulsory.
Motorways only.
Some dual carriageways.
Speed restrictions.
Weather restrictions.

The web is littered with videos of failed FSD trips in the US - and their roads are far, far superior to ours (on the whole).

The day you get into your car where you plug in FSD and read the papers are atleast a decade+ off!

1/3 of US roads are unpaved dirt tracks.

 

[zoros]

2/3rds aren't!

 

[LiamPope]

I really hope we are forward thinking enough to allow basically anything at level 2 with responsibility squarely on the driver (just as FSDb in US) with of course tighter controls on level 3 and above, but I fear we'll take the path of piecemeal allowing specific functions very tightly defined and restricted which is really not compatible with the way Tesla are approaching it.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I really hope we are forward thinking enough to allow basically anything at level 2 with responsibility squarely on the driver (just as FSDb in US) with of course tighter controls on level 3 and above, but I fear we'll take the path of piecemeal allowing specific functions very tightly defined and restricted which is really not compatible with the way Tesla are approaching it.

Where I have a problem is the thought of something like the US FSDb say near a school, or anywhere there may be parked cars, pedestrians, etc. At the moment, if I see a child about to cross the road I react, with FSDb either the car would react more than I would (and I'd be frustrated like a phantom braking which I deem unnecessary), or it doesn't react as I would and then I am faced with the dilemma of either taking over control or trusting the system.. and trusting the system is not something compatible with the driver being accountable. Either way.. rather than reacting to the event, the driver starts reacting to what the car does in reaction to the event.. and that extra step can't be good.

Now I'd argue on a motorway generally the instances of that are less frequent in such a time critical way.. the car desn't respond to a speed limit change, I would be very unlucky to get a ticket in the few seconds while I change the car speed, a car starts to wander in lane ahead.. I can assess and if I thinkt he car should be slowing I could take over.

Incidently, if the US have better roads, it does beg the question why their fatality rates are significantly higher than ours on pro rata basis

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Incidently, if the US have better roads, it does beg the question why their fatality rates are significantly higher than ours on pro rata basis

Well.. Their driving test consists of navigating around a car park. That can't help.

 

[yessuz]

1/3 of US roads are unpaved dirt tracks.

but 'muraican roads are WIDE.

 

[JupiterMan]

The bill that's now in the Lords doesn't state either way, all it states is that the Secretary of State for Transport would bring forward the standards that they intend to use to assess self-driving to the commons at a later point. It's really just a statutory instrument to allow self-driving and define the offenses of misleading the process or using an automated vehicle in an unsafe state.

Thanks for clarification - for Secretary of State Approval I think we then have to take into account the new GB Vehicle Type approval, which for cars becomes effective from 1st February 2024.

This scheme runs parallel to UNECE approval rules, so cars in UK can wither be sold to GB Approval or UNECE standard from that point.

This is where I struggle, I see lots of detail here about emissions standards variance within new GB rules, but nothing that I can see there yet concerning divergence for autonomy in GB type approvals.

Its still quite possible UNECE will get there first, where earliest approvals, which would allow Level 2 FSDBeta could happen in July 2024 (they could have been approved in September 2023, as rules have already been written, they just did not get an opportunity to vote on them apparently). Level 4 UNECE approvals scheduled then from 2025.

(WP.29/GRVA) Working Party on Automated/Autonomous and Connected Vehicles (17th session) | UNECE

unece.org

 

[Pink Duck]

I don’t think Tesla have any interest in conforming to UNECE. If they did we’d already have autonomous lane changes, which came into effect 1st Jan 2023.

They might even be right that the biggest thing to influence foreign regulators is FSD working well within US first.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Heck, if they cared we'd have matrix lights..

Tesla really only produce for the US market and everywhere else is just a bonus for them.

 

[Zilla91]

Can’t understand how anyone would want this rubbish let loose on our streets

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727889381309239731