Was always likely to be the case.. .I'm sure Tesla could do it - even if it involved replacing looms, etc, but if they can convince the customer base that HW3 will do a version of FSD, just not as well as later cars, then they might get away with it. Or think they can.
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[UK] Price cuts
- Thread starter APTY
- Start date
Yeah agreed, I forget his wording exactly but it was something along the lines of "not cost effective to change everything as not straightforward. However it wont matter as HW3 FSD will be 200-300% safer and HW4 500%"
Everything was extremely positive from the call though and it looks like manufacturing efficiency is still the key to Tesla staying at the top for many years to come, no sign of price increases immediately although he did mention the Model Y was raised slightly in US (I think $500) due to excessive demand following initial cuts.
Everything was extremely positive from the call though and it looks like manufacturing efficiency is still the key to Tesla staying at the top for many years to come, no sign of price increases immediately although he did mention the Model Y was raised slightly in US (I think $500) due to excessive demand following initial cuts.
There will always be something new to wait for.
They will have to deliver the missing features that USS supported and they will have to deliver FSD on hw3. Otherwise the lawsuits will come in. They sold that many cars now and especially in the US and Germany etc where lawsuits reign supreme.
They will have to deliver the missing features that USS supported and they will have to deliver FSD on hw3. Otherwise the lawsuits will come in. They sold that many cars now and especially in the US and Germany etc where lawsuits reign supreme.
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Didn’t he also confirm that HW4 models will be priced higher? So, yes, hold off if FSD is important to you - but don’t expect prices to be at todays levels imho.
Just so you know (and may be aware) the term is "reign supreme", rather than referring to high-class weather.
Thanks dad! You’re the best! I’m going to lie and pretend it was a pun at the auto wipers
He always sounds positive, but he's also in court right now for, how can i put it, being a little too positive on the progress they've made in the past. You learn to wait for the reality rather than live off the promises if you've followed Tesla for any length of time.
Thats not to say there isn't good stuff, just telling everyone their USSless cars also have a soon to be old technology autopilot hardwre, while missing again the FSDb V11 dates doesn't really equate to "everythiong was extremely positive"
The entire HW3 vs HW4 fretting makes me chuckle. The question from my perspective is simple -- is HW3 sufficient to deliver on a capable FSD car? No one who is not intimately and personally involved with the actual coding and development can know. Tomorrow (metaphorically speaking) will bring HW4. But it won't (and should not) stop there. HW5, HW6 all will be developed at some point in time. Just as computers are always advancing. The notion that a self-driving system will ever be considered final, done, no more development is unrealistic.
I am most curious about which manufacturer(s) get(s) there first. I am not willing to bet it will be Tesla but I'm also not counting them out.
I am most curious about which manufacturer(s) get(s) there first. I am not willing to bet it will be Tesla but I'm also not counting them out.
safer than perfectly safe means I wouldn't care or pay for HW4. Safer than not safe means I wouldn't care or pay for FSD on HW3. Which is it?
Surely 'safe enough' is a fairly binary limit
also they've had 3 sets of HW now. You'd think they'd make the looms to be modular in case of need of retrofit - HW3 retrofits must have cost them quite a bit. If they're keeping the basic locations the same you'd think it'd be possible even if not a simple drop in replacement.
Surely 'safe enough' is a fairly binary limit
also they've had 3 sets of HW now. You'd think they'd make the looms to be modular in case of need of retrofit - HW3 retrofits must have cost them quite a bit. If they're keeping the basic locations the same you'd think it'd be possible even if not a simple drop in replacement.
I’m one of them who has bought it 3 times but this tikenwas hoping it would cover hardware upgrades for none FSD stuff. Now feels like that was a waste !
i think tne (legitimate in my opinion) grumbles are from people who dropped $15k on FSD with an expectation, perhaps even a promise, that they would be upgraded as the need arised, but now the language is changing to suggest that there might be different tiers of "full self driving" and that if HW3 can manage to drive like a learner driver then it still qualifies.
Tesla have also historically made overtures about sustainability and people being able to upgrade/retrofit things. Obviously no one can see the future so they can't always build in future proofed looms, etc, but it seems to be that the modern day Tesla is more about shifting as many cars as possible, and existing owners get what they paid for - which is fine, but it's the old, decried legacy automotive mindset.
I actually think it was somewhat inevitable that this would happen, and it will happen again, but it is not inaccurate to say that this represents an overt change in attitude towards existing owners having to put up with inadequate equipment (for full self driving) even if they paid a King's ransom on the belief/promise that they would be upgraded.
Other manufacturers have already got to level 4. Just not car manufacturers. Elon seems content with level 2, and then he can say "See! Self driving!" in order to get out of the billions he will be forced to refund.
can't remotely cost more than a few hundred for the main computer so not that expensive to retrofit.
At this point they have to realise if they scale up that HW is being wasted in most cars. Logically you'd fit everyone with a basic ryzen APU for driving the infotainment and then have a more powerful daughterboard you could fit at a service centre if you pay for FSD.
And this is where moving to software as a solution for basic driver aids like auto wipers/auto main beam, no USS - bites them in the ass. Because now instead of a $5 rain sensor controlling the wipers with a stalk controlling sensitivity, they need the entire FSD HW stack because its all driving off the same complex vision system.
Thats me having my investor hat on I guess and looking at the company performance and outlook. From a consumer perspective not ideal I agree.
Why are you making quite so many assumptions? It seems reasonable to me to assume that HW4 had different connection and likely to need different cameras and perhaps this new HD radar. So why not take it on face-value that it would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit.
Every Tesla has AutoPilot that uses the HW3 computer, so I don't understand the second statement, it's a software unlock for FSD.
Not everything in the world is a conspiracy to hand-wave away.
JupiterMan
Active Member
True!
Also, every Tesla uses the FSD computer for other safety features even if they have not purchased EAP/FSD so it is never sitting there being redundant, or just being used for the wipers.
Agree but musk said all cars have the hardware for FSD many years ago. So there is going to be some legal issues if that doesn’t manifest itself.
Then on top of that those that paid for FSD upfront and never get the promise of that.
We’re getting to the point now of timelines that class actions in the US May start to happen especially with several countries and states are chasing Tesla for FSD being misleading and trying to prevent it being sold.
I'm not suggesting it is hard to retrofit. I'm suggesting that after three iterations, they shoudl have designed it to either be easier to retrofit (to save themselves money) and/or designed it not to have all the hardware in there as standard considering the likely small % that pay for FSD. Although as mentioned that latter one they've painted themselves into a corner with
Its an expensive sledgehammer to crack a nut in that regard
