[UK] used value of their Tesla cars plummeting?

[SO16]

I have just put my M3LR in WBA and nearly fell off my seat - I paid £51k last March and WBA valued it at £30k . . . . NEVER in my life have a I seen a 40% depreciation on a car after just one year. Add to that - it was expensive to buy and it's expensive to insure, it will be a cold day in hell before I buy another Tesla.

What is better?

1. Have prices drop so in that I lose value on my old vehicle but I would pay less on my next car.

2. Keep prices high so I feel better about my current value car but have to pay a high price again in the future.

I choose option one every time. Even for real estate. Saves money in the long run.
Prices were high due to pandemic and now coming back to normal. The only time option 2 is better is if you don’t plan to buy anything again or want to use it as collateral.

Buying at the high and then selling so soon is definitely not financially wise. Car purchases rarely are. It is unfortunate for those that did and have to sell so soon. But that is more on them than it is on the car company reducing prices.

“During the first year, the average depreciation for new cars is around 30 to 40 per cent, but most lose less and some lose more, according to the Canadian Black Book (CBB).”

Do new cars really depreciate by 30 per cent when you drive them off the lot? - The Globe and Mail

During the first year, the average depreciation for new cars is around 30 to 40 per cent, but most lose less and some lose more

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[CWT3LR]

What is better?

1. Have prices drop so in that I lose value on my old vehicle but I would pay less on my next car.

2. Keep prices high so I feel better about my current value car but have to pay a high price again in the future.

I choose option one every time. Even for real estate. Saves money in the long run.

Option 2 means for anyone who has to borrow to finance the purchase of a car or real estate, you hand over an unhealthy chunk more in interest too.

 

[UrbanSplash]

Well I’ve placed an order for an M3 Touring in São Paulo yellow. Just waiting confirmation of a build a slot ‘this year’. Longer the better I guess for when I sell my Y. Tesla just isn’t for me anymore. A few contributing factors… bit bored of them.. not much changes… even new colours aren’t happening here. Too many around. Queues at chargers. Unpredictable pricing on a whim, with no feeling they ever think long term etc. CT won’t ever make it here. What else exciting coming up? A ‘new x’… my god that panel gap on symonds new YouTube video is a disgrace. ‘New S’, not much different. What else? Nothing.

 

[MashinBenzin]

Well I’ve placed an order for an M3 Touring in São Paulo yellow. Just waiting confirmation of a build a slot ‘this year’. Longer the better I guess for when I sell my Y. Tesla just isn’t for me anymore. A few contributing factors… bit bored of them.. not much changes… even new colours aren’t happening here. Too many around. Queues at chargers. Unpredictable pricing on a whim, with no feeling they ever think long term etc. CT won’t ever make it here. What else exciting coming up? A ‘new x’… my god that panel gap on symonds new YouTube video is a disgrace. ‘New S’, not much different. What else? Nothing.

Nice choice, hope the Tesla bounces a little in value for you.

I don’t know how long I will keep my Tesla, and I really value the smoothness and convenience of EV…so wouldn’t go back to ICE. But agree with pretty much all your points and I will be amazed if I ever buy another Tesla. The lack of product development is pretty astonishing.

That X is indeed a joke at serious Range Rover money. Which is how I felt about the old X at £90k when I test drove around 2018 - not even in the competitive ballpark for the sort of cars you could have for the money. Which explains why they sold so few.

 

[SO16]

That X is indeed a joke at serious Range Rover money. Which is how I felt about the old X at £90k when I test drove around 2018 - not even in the competitive ballpark for the sort of cars you could have for the money. Which explains why they sold so few.

???

Looks like they produced 71,177 S/X for 2022 and delivered 66,705. Seems to be fairly decent. Granted, can’t see the split between S/X.

Tesla Delivers Record-Setting 405,278 Cars In Q4 2022, 1.3 Million In All Of 2022

Tesla has just released its Q4 2022 production and delivery report, so the numbers are now in. See how Tesla fared this quarter right here.

insideevs.com

Range Rover hasn’t cracked 20k in a year.

Land Rover Range Rover Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

As far as few changes? Changes are made right away rather than queued up by model year. Also the drivetrain and inner workings were completely redone for the plaid. I understand people having complaints, but at least have valid ones. Maybe they should change a couple more body panels instead like what other manufacturers do and think it’s a huge update.

 

[SO16]

Unpredictable pricing on a whim, with no feeling they ever think long term etc.

I guess some people prefer that prices only go up so they can feel better about their “valuable” car.

No feeling they don’t think about long term? What? Elon has literally said prices were embarrassingly high and that the price increases were due to inflationary costs. Maybe Tesla should have kept the prices high so other manufacturers would too. That way we can continue to get overly screwed on the next purchase.

They then raise prices if backlog gets too high. Maybe some people prefer the dealership model?

Elon Musk Calls Tesla's Prices "Embarrassing," Blames Inflation

Due to supply issues, inflation, and crazy demand for Tesla's cars, it keeps raising prices. Musk says inflation may fade, and the pricing situation may improve.

insideevs.com

 

[Zilla91]

Maybe some people prefer the dealership model?

I certainly do.

 

[UrbanSplash]

Tesla

 

[CWT3LR]

???

Looks like they produced 71,177 S/X for 2022 and delivered 66,705. Seems to be fairly decent. Granted, can’t see the split between S/X.

Tesla Delivers Record-Setting 405,278 Cars In Q4 2022, 1.3 Million In All Of 2022

Tesla has just released its Q4 2022 production and delivery report, so the numbers are now in. See how Tesla fared this quarter right here.

insideevs.com

Range Rover hasn’t cracked 20k in a year.

Land Rover Range Rover Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

As far as few changes? Changes are made right away rather than queued up by model year. Also the drivetrain and inner workings were completely redone for the plaid. I understand people having complaints, but at least have valid ones. Maybe they should change a couple more body panels instead like what other manufacturers do and think it’s a huge update.

Could you please ask Tesla to actually test the changes that are "made right away"? To not, you know, pump out substandard software that is used to control a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 80mph?

 

[SO16]

Could you please ask Tesla to actually test the changes that are "made right away"? To not, you know, pump out substandard software that is used to control a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 80mph?

Tesla should always strive to do better with testing.

But testing issues are far from Tesla specific. In 2022 alone, here is a partial list of other companies and their software issues…

VW’s electric cars have software problems, and Chinese customers are angry – The China Project

VW's new China electric vehicle JV is ready to start production, but Chinese customers are up in arms about their cars' buggy software.

thechinaproject.com

Recall alert: Toyota recalls 460,000 vehicles to fix software issue that can disable electronic stability control system

The automaker says that when the vehicles are restarted, in rare cases the software may not automatically switch the system into the “on” mode.

www.masslive.com

Ford recalls 737,000 U.S. vehicles over software and fire-risk issues

Ford Motor Co is recalling 737,000 vehicles in the United States over a part that could develop an oil leak and a software error that could hinder braking, it said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

https://www.thestreet.com/.amp/automotive/gm-recalls-more-than-740000-vehicles-due-to-headlight-problem

Porsche Is Recalling 12,490 Taycan EVs Over Software Issue

Bad software written by Aptiv Services Deutschland GmbH is to blame for the Taycan's central screens going black after activating the ignition

www.autoevolution.com

Audi Recalls 170k Vehicles Due to Software Issue

More than 170,000 Audi vehicles, ranging from the A4 to the e-tron GT and RS Q8, are called back for an infotainment system software update

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Zilla91]

Oh look, more whataboutery from one of the true believers

 

[MashinBenzin]

???

Looks like they produced 71,177 S/X for 2022 and delivered 66,705. Seems to be fairly decent. Granted, can’t see the split between S/X.

Tesla Delivers Record-Setting 405,278 Cars In Q4 2022, 1.3 Million In All Of 2022

Tesla has just released its Q4 2022 production and delivery report, so the numbers are now in. See how Tesla fared this quarter right here.

insideevs.com

Range Rover hasn’t cracked 20k in a year.

Land Rover Range Rover Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

As far as few changes? Changes are made right away rather than queued up by model year. Also the drivetrain and inner workings were completely redone for the plaid. I understand people having complaints, but at least have valid ones. Maybe they should change a couple more body panels instead like what other manufacturers do and think it’s a huge update.

Even in production constrained 2021 and with both as about to be replaced models (by real new models), LR produced 57k Range Rover Sports and 43k Range Rovers. Your less than 20k is US only.

Yes few changes. You and I both know that other manufacturers don’t just change a few body panels. Monocoques, suspensions, drivetrains, interior, technology, all go through a vast number of changes in model years (often point model years), heavy facelifts and complete new models. Teslas pace of change thus far is slow. Updating drivetrains is nothing new in the industry. They’ve gone from being way ahead of the pack to one of the pack and currently look like the pack is overhauling them.

And Tesla are far from immune to having distinct model releases. Raven, Plaid are just like a trad model year change, just they couldn’t be bothered to invest in the body, so half a proper job. Which probably should be the company motto.

 

[SO16]

Even in production constrained 2021 and with both as about to be replaced models (by real new models), LR produced 57k Range Rover Sports and 43k Range Rovers. Your less than 20k is US only.

Yes few changes. You and I both know that other manufacturers don’t just change a few body panels. Monocoques, suspensions, drivetrains, interior, technology, all go through a vast number of changes in model years (often point model years), heavy facelifts and complete new models. Teslas pace of change thus far is slow. Updating drivetrains is nothing new in the industry. They’ve gone from being way ahead of the pack to one of the pack and currently look like the pack is overhauling them.

And Tesla are far from immune to having distinct model releases. Raven, Plaid are just like a trad model year change, just they couldn’t be bothered to invest in the body, so half a proper job. Which probably should be the company motto.

Thank you for the correction on Range Rover sales. I didn’t catch that US only. My mistake. So it appears about 2-3 times the sales of estimated X only sales. Range Rover came out in 1970 and Model X started production in 2015.

As to the rest, looks to be about every 4-6 years for major upgrades. Which given the age of the model S/X, it is due for a major revision.

“No, vehicles typically only get major upgrades every four to six years, and minor updates every three years. This time period is what’s known as an “automotive model cycle,” and it corresponds to the generations of a vehicle.

The major upgrade that takes place every four to six years is known as a “redesign,” while the minor upgrades every three years are known as a “mid-cycle refresh,” “model refresh,” or “facelift.” A “carryover” is when a vehicle receives no upgrades and is the same as the year before.”

Do car models change every year? Redesigns, Refreshes and Carryovers

Is every 2020 model superior to every 2019 model, and every 2019 superior to every 2018, and so on? Do vehicles actually get upgraded every year?

www.buyevscars.com

 

[pgkevet]

so half a proper job. Which probably should be the company motto.

Brilliant!

 

[CWT3LR]

Even in production constrained 2021 and with both as about to be replaced models (by real new models), LR produced 57k Range Rover Sports and 43k Range Rovers. Your less than 20k is US only.

Yes few changes. You and I both know that other manufacturers don’t just change a few body panels. Monocoques, suspensions, drivetrains, interior, technology, all go through a vast number of changes in model years (often point model years), heavy facelifts and complete new models. Teslas pace of change thus far is slow. Updating drivetrains is nothing new in the industry. They’ve gone from being way ahead of the pack to one of the pack and currently look like the pack is overhauling them.

And Tesla are far from immune to having distinct model releases. Raven, Plaid are just like a trad model year change, just they couldn’t be bothered to invest in the body, so half a proper job. Which probably should be the company motto.

I wouldn't bother trying to debate with a fervent believer. Like all US religious nutcases, their only aim is to break your will until you join their faith.

 

[UrbanSplash]

To be balanced, in 4 years of having a 3 and a Y, it’s been enjoyable for specific reasons. Absolute novelty factor for one. Effortless driving and speed. Something different that was really new and felt futuristic 4 years ago. But nothing much has changed in that time. Only I now have to queue at most chargers and when I park my car, I come back surrounded by identikits.

What really made me think was a recent YouTube video by Matt Watson. Drag race between a model x plaid/bmw/merc/Audi. Of course the plaid was quickest off the line ever time. Just push the pedal and go. But the fun and banter was between the other 3. Messing up starts, trying to get the best out of the car. Engagement. They barely spoke to Symonds who was in the plaid. Made me think that Tesla’s are functional instruments. Zero engagement or emotion. A quick fridge on its side. I miss that in a car. Going for a drive for fun.

In 4 years I’ve never really considered another brand. But recently sat in the facelift 3 series. What a lovely place to sit. Feels techy but classy. Like a revelation.

So the end or the Tesla journey is in sight for now. Wife will be getting an electric mini which we will use for getting around through the week etc. BMW M3 for ‘fun’, long journeys etc.

 

[DaveNN]

To be balanced, in 4 years of having a 3 and a Y, it’s been enjoyable for specific reasons. Absolute novelty factor for one. Effortless driving and speed. Something different that was really new and felt futuristic 4 years ago. But nothing much has changed in that time. Only I now have to queue at most chargers and when I park my car, I come back surrounded by identikits.

What really made me think was a recent YouTube video by Matt Watson. Drag race between a model x plaid/bmw/merc/Audi. Of course the plaid was quickest off the line ever time. Just push the pedal and go. But the fun and banter was between the other 3. Messing up starts, trying to get the best out of the car. Engagement. They barely spoke to Symonds who was in the plaid. Made me think that Tesla’s are functional instruments. Zero engagement or emotion. A quick fridge on its side. I miss that in a car. Going for a drive for fun.

In 4 years I’ve never really considered another brand. But recently sat in the facelift 3 series. What a lovely place to sit. Feels techy but classy. Like a revelation.

So the end or the Tesla journey is in sight for now. Wife will be getting an electric mini which we will use for getting around through the week etc. BMW M3 for ‘fun’, long journeys etc.

Totally understood.
I'm some way off changing/buying mine but the lure of early retirement next year is becoming stronger.
Being on IO, with batteries and PV going on when I get a dry weekend, I will want to stick with an EV.
Whilst this could easily turn into a thread in itself ( or duplicate others) just what else is out there to rival the model 3?

 

[Sparkeur]

just what else is out there to rival the model 3?

Kinetic performance/price: Nothing
Control software performance: Just about everything.

 

[DaveNN]

Kinetic performance/price: Nothing
Control software performance: Just about everything.

Having come from JLR, I can say that the Tesla sw isn't too shabby.

 

[MashinBenzin]

To be balanced, in 4 years of having a 3 and a Y, it’s been enjoyable for specific reasons. Absolute novelty factor for one. Effortless driving and speed. Something different that was really new and felt futuristic 4 years ago. But nothing much has changed in that time. Only I now have to queue at most chargers and when I park my car, I come back surrounded by identikits.

What really made me think was a recent YouTube video by Matt Watson. Drag race between a model x plaid/bmw/merc/Audi. Of course the plaid was quickest off the line ever time. Just push the pedal and go. But the fun and banter was between the other 3. Messing up starts, trying to get the best out of the car. Engagement. They barely spoke to Symonds who was in the plaid. Made me think that Tesla’s are functional instruments. Zero engagement or emotion. A quick fridge on its side. I miss that in a car. Going for a drive for fun.

In 4 years I’ve never really considered another brand. But recently sat in the facelift 3 series. What a lovely place to sit. Feels techy but classy. Like a revelation.

So the end or the Tesla journey is in sight for now. Wife will be getting an electric mini which we will use for getting around through the week etc. BMW M3 for ‘fun’, long journeys etc.

Yep, and four years ago they were so far ahead of the game. That’s part of my frustration, the lack of improvement since then. They could easily have taken that EV lead and spent the last few years trying to build a more engaging, fully featured and interesting car. But no, just growth and profits.

I had the word fridge in my head when I was thinking of my car the other day. Even our Auris is more interesting.

When I had my Discovery, I relished every drive, whether that was the incongruity of it being pretty swift compared with the average car on the road (versus the Tesla where you think it’s swifter than almost everything but yawn), or more likely enjoying the waft and the luxury and the features.

Tesla very much look like they want to remain at the base spec end of the market, nothing new is coming through.

What’s amusing is six months ago the fanboys were arguing that Tesla was a luxury product, never mind premium. In the face of overwhelming reality, they’ve realigned now to the wonders of Model T ubiquity and attain ability.