UMC gen1 v gen2

[sk19]

Got new model X.

Have 32A commando sockets at mine and mum's on advice of a friend.

My UMC does not have 32A commando adapter. Probably gen2 I imagine.

I've read so much conflicting stuff I'm confused now. Someone suggested it will only do 16A.

It says on it "max 32A."

Can I buy a UMC commando 32A from somewhere or will it be limited somehow cos it's gen2? The car will only accept 24A anyway it seems, going by the settings.

 

[cizUK]

Got new model X.

Have 32A commando sockets at mine and mum's on advice of a friend.

My UMC does not have 32A commando adapter. Probably gen2 I imagine.

I've read so much conflicting stuff I'm confused now. Someone suggested it will only do 16A.

It says on it "max 32A."

Can I buy a UMC commando 32A from somewhere or will it be limited somehow cos it's gen2? The car will only accept 24A anyway it seems, going by the settings.

As far as I know Tesla sell a 32a connector, it just doesn't come standard with the car. Give them a call, it should clear things up.
Plus, let us know the results.

 

[sk19]

As far as I know Tesla sell a 32a connector, it just doesn't come standard with the car. Give them a call, it should clear things up.
Plus, let us know the results.

There's no parts option on the phone anymore, and when I try to get through to any other department it just rings forever. A bit like how when we were at the store there was literally noone around. Which brings me onto my dissapointing pickup story, which is a story for another thread.

I have no idea what's going on with Tesla but so far my impression is their support sucks big time, hence having to resort to you guys for help!

 

[sixela]

European CEE 32A 6h Type 023 IP44 Blue Commando (Caravan Mains) Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3 Gen 2

When you use this the UMC does 32A by delivering the same single phase to more than one on-board charger, at least on my model 3 (each of the three on-board chargers on that car is limited to 16A). I think it's different on an X but the UMC and car figure it out among themselves.

 

[MidhurstNigel]

I'd be a bit cautious about using a 32A plug on the UMC without a blessing from Tesla. The fact that the UMC is marked 'max 32A' doesn't help since this probably relates to US charging at 110 volts. The power going through the UMC at 32A and 110 volts is about the same as 16A at the UK voltage of 230 volts so if the limiting factor is the power handling capacity of the UMC you could be cooking it at 32A 230 volts. Or maybe the system is set to put a top limit of power going through the UMC to correspond to 16A 230 volts (about 3.7kw) and it will only pass that amount regardless of whether you put a 16A or a 32A commando plug on it?

 

[Roy W.]

I'd be a bit cautious about using a 32A plug on the UMC without a blessing from Tesla. The fact that the UMC is marked 'max 32A' doesn't help since this probably relates to US charging at 110 volts. The power going through the UMC at 32A and 110 volts is about the same as 16A at the UK voltage of 230 volts so if the limiting factor is the power handling capacity of the UMC you could be cooking it at 32A 230 volts. Or maybe the system is set to put a top limit of power going through the UMC to correspond to 16A 230 volts (about 3.7kw) and it will only pass that amount regardless of whether you put a 16A or a 32A commando plug on it?

The UMC will be the limiting factor. If it is rated at 3.7kW it would only draw that much even if you plugged it into a 500A socket (if such a thing existed ).

 

[GSP]

I'd be a bit cautious about using a 32A plug on the UMC without a blessing from Tesla. The fact that the UMC is marked 'max 32A' doesn't help since this probably relates to US charging at 110 volts. The power going through the UMC at 32A and 110 volts is about the same as 16A at the UK voltage of 230 volts so if the limiting factor is the power handling capacity of the UMC you could be cooking it at 32A 230 volts. Or maybe the system is set to put a top limit of power going through the UMC to correspond to 16A 230 volts (about 3.7kw) and it will only pass that amount regardless of whether you put a 16A or a 32A commando plug on it?

I agree it definitely is a good idea to insure the UMC supplied in Europe (and U.K. ) is capable for use with this adapter. I would at least monitor the UMC temperature while charging to make sure it does not get more than slightly warm.

Just FYI - in the US all residential electricity is 240 / 120 V, with 240 V used for all continuous loads over 16 Amps. Commercial installations usually supply 208 V, sometimes 240 V. The gen2 UMC supplied in North America is capable of 32 A 240 V charging. European cars might get a different UMC, or maybe the same one, I don’t know.

GSP

 

[sk19]

European CEE 32A 6h Type 023 IP44 Blue Commando (Caravan Mains) Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3 Gen 2

When you use this the UMC does 32A by delivering the same single phase to more than one on-board charger, at least on my model 3 (each of the three on-board chargers on that car is limited to 16A). I think it's different on an X but the UMC and car figure it out among themselves.

Yeah that's the only place I can find such an adapter being sold. Have emailled tesla parts, no response yet (beyond ridiculous that they have noone on the phone I can talk to, even cheap chinese places respond straight away). It'll be a £100 (delivered) risk if it doesn't work. I'm not sure it is worth it. I don't understand how the UMC stuff works.

The car itself only allows a charge of 24A.

I don't know, is it worth getting teh Tesla wall charger instead? Will that give me more than the 24A?

Argh.. this should not be so much hassle

 

[MidhurstNigel]

Interesting - I didn't know 240 volts is now common in US domestic property. Presumably it is taped between the phases rather than between one phase and neutral. Does this mean US domestic property is now commonly connected to three phases?

The other thing to watch is that the 32A socket you have available is up to the job. If it was installed under previous editions of the UK wiring regs (which didn't take into account things like loft insulation and cable bunching) it might not be suitable for the dead load of battery charging. Running for hours at close to 32A has a much bigger heating effect on the supply cable than occassional running of something like a compressor. I'd get it checked out by a sparks before putting a sustained 32A load on it

 

[sk19]

I'd be a bit cautious about using a 32A plug on the UMC without a blessing from Tesla. The fact that the UMC is marked 'max 32A' doesn't help since this probably relates to US charging at 110 volts. The power going through the UMC at 32A and 110 volts is about the same as 16A at the UK voltage of 230 volts so if the limiting factor is the power handling capacity of the UMC you could be cooking it at 32A 230 volts. Or maybe the system is set to put a top limit of power going through the UMC to correspond to 16A 230 volts (about 3.7kw) and it will only pass that amount regardless of whether you put a 16A or a 32A commando plug on it?

Yeah that's what I thought but it says "max 32A 110-240V" so I guess putting 32A in at 240V should be ok. I suppose the risk in me buying an adapter is if the UMC limits what goes out, as you say.

 

[sk19]

I agree it definitely is a good idea to insure the UMC supplied in Europe (and U.K. ) is capable for use with this adapter. I would at least monitor the UMC temperature while charging to make sure it does not get more than slightly warm.

Just FYI - in the US all residential electricity is 240 / 120 V, with 240 V used for all continuous loads over 16 Amps. Commercial installations usually supply 208 V, sometimes 240 V. The gen2 UMC supplied in North America is capable of 32 A 240 V charging. European cars might get a different UMC, or maybe the same one, I don’t know.

GSP

Well this is extremely reassuring. I'd be very surprised if non-US UMCs are different. I had a chat with Xavelec (very helpful) who reckon that they have just made the same UMC the world over, so if they US one can output 32A chances are ours can too. It's just a guess though based on what I want to believe....

 

[pjuk]

I’m pretty convinced that the UMC would not spontaneously combust if you supplied 32A. The commando socket should be fused back at the consumer unit to protect the wiring and the UMC will be fused appropriately to protect the unit. These units are probably well regulated against over temperature and would dial down the demand if there was a problem. As others have stated the concern would be your internal wiring being up to scratch.

 

[sixela]

The car itself only allows a charge of 24A.

I don't know, is it worth getting the Tesla wall charger instead? Will that give me more than the 24A?

The 24A is per on-board charger. Don't know if the UK is seen as a "single phase market", but I don't think it is, since all manuals are EU-wide. But even in those single-phase markets, you get two 24A on-board chargers; when using single phase charging both on board chargers are in parallel on the one phase.

In continental Europe (which is a three phase market) you get three 24A 240V on board chargers, for a max. charging rate of 16.5kW. Given that's what the UK page also says, and given the Tesla Wall Connector page is EU-wide, it probably means the UK is a three-phase market and you probably get three on board chargers rated to 24A.

With a single phase UMC with the 32A single phase adapters the on-board chargers will limit input current to the UMC to 32A, so that gives you a charge rate of 7.6kW spread over all on-board-chargers.

The EU Tesla Wall Connector is also limited to 32A per charger connection, always between N and a Line (i.e. 240V), so 22kW (3*32A*240V). But to go beyond what the UMC with a 32A plug does, you need to go to three-phase input. That will allow 16.5kW charging (over the three on-board chargers).

The single phase wall connector for the US is different, and allows higher amperages.

 

[sixela]

I'd be a bit cautious about using a 32A plug on the UMC without a blessing from Tesla. The fact that the UMC is marked 'max 32A' doesn't help since this probably relates to US charging at 110 volts.

It's 32A 100-240V. Even the EU one (which is clearly marked as "EU"). The manuals also mention other adapters (than the wall socket and CEE 16A ones that are always included) are available from Tesla.

Indeed, using that does require your wiring to be good for sustained 32A loads. If you get the 32A adapter and plug it in in a 32A CEE plug, then it's your responsibility to ensure that is what upstream of it can handle it (in the US electricity codes require the wiring and circuit breaker to be rated to 40A for that).

In continental EU you usually go to three phase for such loads instead of cranking up the amps.

There's a thermal sensor in the adapters so if your 32A plug becomes too hot (or if it senses to much voltage drop) the car will dial down the amperage. But if you have a problem in your wires or closer to the circuit breaker upstream of course it won't detect it.

 

[sixela]

The UMC will be the limiting factor. If it is rated at 3.7kW it would only draw that much even if you plugged it into a 500A socket (if such a thing existed ).

It is rated at 3.7kW with the supplied blue CEE 16A plug adapter. The adapter contains electronics to tell the UMC what limits there are.

 

[sk19]

Nope. It's 32A 100-240V. Even the EU one (which is clearly marked as "EU"). The manuals also mention other adapters (than the wall socket and CEE 16A ones that are always included) are available from Tesla.

Indeed, using that does require your wiring to be good for sustained 32A loads. If you get the 32A adapter and plug it in in a 32A CEE plug, then it's your responsibility to ensure that is what upstream of it can handle it (in the US electricity codes require the wiring and circuit breaker to be rated to 40A for that).

In continental EU you usually go to three phase for such loads instead of cranking up the amps.

There's a thermal sensor in the adapters so if your 32A plug becomes too hot (or if it senses to much voltage drop) the car will dial down the amperage. But if you have a problem in your wires or closer to the circuit breaker upstream of course it won't detect it.

Very reassuring. So do you think it's worth the risk of spending £100 on a 32A commando adapter to see if it will work? i.e. my guess from this thread is that it *may* work. Is that a reasonable guess? (I appreciate you don't know for sure and I won't hold you to it!)

 

[MidhurstNigel]

So that looks hopeful. Get a 32A plug for the UMC and plug it into a 32A soket and (something) will share the 32A between two or three on-board chargers to give a charging power of 7.6kw? NB my earlier post about the 32A socket quality. It may the protected by a 32A trip at the consumer unit but if it is wired with 6mm cable which is bunched and runs under insulation it could get seriously hot if asked to carry 32A for several hours

 

[sk19]

So that looks hopeful. Get a 32A plug for the UMC and plug it into a 32A soket and (something) will share the 32A between two or three on-board chargers to give a charging power of 7.6kw? NB my earlier post about the 32A socket quality. It may the protected by a 32A trip at the consumer unit but if it is wired with 6mm cable which is bunched and runs under insulation it could get seriously hot if asked to carry 32A for several hours

Yeah good point. It's only a 100cm run to the outside so hopefully will be ok but I will check with the sparky and builders.

 

[sixela]

I Or maybe the system is set to put a top limit of power going through the UMC to correspond to 16A 230 volts (about 3.7kw) and it will only pass that amount regardless of whether you put a 16A or a 32A commando plug on it?

The Gen 2 UMC is rather for 32A 10-240V. The adapters communicate with the UMC to set the limit corresponding to their plug (on mine if I install the extended Schuko adapter it goes to 13A, with the CEE 16A plug to 16A).

Which is why you need another adapter: if you use the 16A CEE plug adapter and then go from a 16A to a 32A plug (which would be sacrilege anyway) then the adapter still will limit everything to 16A. The intent is that if you get an adapter to plug things in a 32A CEE socket, that everything upstream of the socket is indeed rated for it (even though in some old electric codes it would not necessarily make it all rated for 32A continuous loads, hence the need for caution).

 

[davidmc]

Yeah good point. It's only a 100cm run to the outside so hopefully will be ok but I will check with the sparky and builders.

I'm thinking the same thing if the 32a adapter is available for the UMC that comes with the M3. I would be getting a 32a commando outside. It can go on the opposite side of the wall to the consumer unit so less than 0.5m. The reason is that i have to pay full price for the wallpod or similar and no off street parking!