Unacceptable Powerwall fiasco

[SMAlset]

....I wasn't. The job was to start in just a few weeks. Tesla is the one who is now postponing it several months. At this point, I'll likely demand a refund, as it seems unconscionable for Tesla to sit on all that money, plus my original deposit from over 3 years years ago… for several months more.

Your contract is with your third party installer not Tesla I'm willing to bet from what you posted. They may be a certified installer (meaning they had the training to enable them to get allotments of PWs and install them properly to meet warranty) but you are that other company's customer. And if you have a service issue later, it's that third party company that is responsible for doing the repair/replacemnet work not Tesla. Hope you understand that. Putting down a $100 deposit with Tesla is not the same as doing business and signing a contract, with a deposit, with an third party installer, certified or not by Tesla. Two separate corporate entities. Sounds like you've maybe put down money with both?

 

[charlesj]

Me, too. I've wanted Powerwalls for blackouts, and simply to use as many of my solar kWh as I can, rather than trade them for my utility's dirty kWh at night. I'm now tempted to just cancel and get both deposits back. I've HAD it with the years of delays.

What panels and inverters do you have?

 

[holeydonut]

This is the danger that brands run into when they get licensed out to third parties... customers often can't tell the difference with who they are buying from.

For example, Tesla owns their entire USA vehicle dealer network, so when someone buys a Tesla automobile in the USA, they are getting it from the company that is making Elon Musk a bazillionaire. But when someone buys a Tesla Powerwall, they could be going through Tesla Energy, or they could be going through a 3rd party seller. It's very easy for a consumer to miss out on these subtleties.

Either way, the customer wants a Tesla branded product, and I don't think splitting hairs on legal counterparty-mumbo-jumbo helps the OP.

Tesla takes on risk (and reaps the reward) of having a 3rd party distributor network of their energy solutions. Aside from a tweet from Elon, I don't think Tesla Energy has done much to educate their Powerwall supply chain and end consumers about their channel stock expectations.

But you guys are right, the OP's problem is legally with the 3rd party who has been stringing him along with promises that likely can't be kept since they don't have enough influence with Tesla to get the training and equipment they need to do the installation.

I just don't think it makes sense to give Tesla a clean pass absolving them of responsibility to help a Tesla customer get a good experience due to a legal interpretation. Using legal doctrine as a decider rarely means a good experience for the consumer and we should expect better.

Good luck @Yanquetino.

 

[Zorg]

After last year's PSPS debacle in CA, orders for Powerwalls shot up. We ordered ours from Tesla in November 2019 and got them installed in February 2020 (right before the pandemic shut down everything). I would imagine that this year's wildfires only amplified the demand for PW. None of this matters to you, but that probably explains the craziness.

 

[jjrandorin]

After last year's PSPS debacle in CA, orders for Powerwalls shot up. We ordered ours from Tesla in November 2019 and got them installed in February 2020 (right before the pandemic shut down everything). I would imagine that this year's wildfires only amplified the demand for PW. None of this matters to you, but that probably explains the craziness.

Last time I called telsa energy support I got a supervisor, who doesnt normally answer the phone. She and I had a nice chat after I explained my problem and I could tell I was talking with someone experienced.

One thing she told me was, people at the call centers were helping on the massive influx of calls for powerwalls / solar. She told me she took a call where someone was basically saying "Ok I am ready to buy this solar and powerwall, can you come tomorrow??????" The person couldnt understand that, no, you cant buy this product this afternoon and have someone out "tomorrow" to install it. This was when the latest round of PSPS were announced in Nor cal a few days ago.

 

[jboy210]

After last year's PSPS debacle in CA, orders for Powerwalls shot up. We ordered ours from Tesla in November 2019 and got them installed in February 2020 (right before the pandemic shut down everything). I would imagine that this year's wildfires only amplified the demand for PW. None of this matters to you, but that probably explains the craziness.

Yep. Last year's PSPS is the reason we have 2 Powerwalls. We were out of power for a total of 4 days in 2 separate PSPS incidents. Our goal is Never Again! We also ordered them in Nov 2019 and installed them in March 2020.

I sort of wish we had ordered 3. I might order another one if they announce something interesting as part of Battery Day next week.

 

[Zorg]

Last time I called telsa energy support I got a supervisor, who doesnt normally answer the phone. She and I had a nice chat after I explained my problem and I could tell I was talking with someone experienced.

One thing she told me was, people at the call centers were helping on the massive influx of calls for powerwalls / solar. She told me she took a call where someone was basically saying "Ok I am ready to buy this solar and powerwall, can you come tomorrow??????" The person couldnt understand that, no, you cant buy this product this afternoon and have someone out "tomorrow" to install it. This was when the latest round of PSPS were announced in Nor cal a few days ago.

West coast orders alone can probably absorb most of the PW production (my wild a.. guess). Back in Feb, they had 5 or 6 crews installing PWs in Norcal if I remember correctly, and they were definitely hiring. With new NEM pricing that is pretty much anti solar production, it should only add to the demand pressure for PW.

 

[Vines]

This is the danger that brands run into when they get licensed out to third parties... customers often can't tell the difference with who they are buying from.

For example, Tesla owns their entire USA vehicle dealer network, so when someone buys a Tesla automobile in the USA, they are getting it from the company that is making Elon Musk a bazillionaire. But when someone buys a Tesla Powerwall, they could be going through Tesla Energy, or they could be going through a 3rd party seller. It's very easy for a consumer to miss out on these subtleties.

Either way, the customer wants a Tesla branded product, and I don't think splitting hairs on legal counterparty-mumbo-jumbo helps the OP.

Tesla takes on risk (and reaps the reward) of having a 3rd party distributor network of their energy solutions. Aside from a tweet from Elon, I don't think Tesla Energy has done much to educate their Powerwall supply chain and end consumers about their channel stock expectations.

But you guys are right, the OP's problem is legally with the 3rd party who has been stringing him along with promises that likely can't be kept since they don't have enough influence with Tesla to get the training and equipment they need to do the installation.

I just don't think it makes sense to give Tesla a clean pass absolving them of responsibility to help a Tesla customer get a good experience due to a legal interpretation. Using legal doctrine as a decider rarely means a good experience for the consumer and we should expect better.

Good luck @Yanquetino.

While I agree in theory when things are unclear, they are unclear. In actuality the story doesn't make sense that Tesla did drop the ball. OP very clearly knows he's going 3rd party, and it seems somebody over promised.

If the installer had just gotten certified 1 month prior, they certainly must have had some inkling of the equipment delivery timeline from Tesla? Like you promise to install a product, take a 80% deposit but you have none in your warehouse, and no idea of delivery timeline when you take money? Who knows, maybe Tesla did tell them 1 month ago that they could have Powerwalls in a week if they ordered them, I don't really know for sure.

I do know that from my personal experience was that nobody at Tesla had any Powerwalls available during that time.

Something doesn't add up here imo.

 

[SMAlset]

People do need to get educated on especially any big ticket item they are buying before they put any money down or sign a contract. Hopefully OP didn’t go with an installer that had or will file for bankruptcy like some here on another thread mentioned. Your installer aside from providing the products and installation will also provide the maintenance service which can be equally important. With covid things got dicey for some. Not sure why the 80% required for their downpayment but that has nothing to do with Tesla if they want to cancel and get it back at this point.

 

[Locash]

Dang Nosken, If someone offered me $9000+ for my new powerwall2 with gateway that I have sitting on a pallet in my garage here in AZ, I'd take that cash in a heartbeat. Care to send them my way if you're holding out for a better deal? haha Crazy times!

The situation is very frustrating. My referral Founder's Edition Powerwall 2 is on it's way to my house. I have talked to a few installers, and they all mention that there are no Powerwalls available until into next year. The PG&E rolling Outages and the wind induced power shutoffs, have exhausted the supply.
I'm not sure I even need the Powerwall, since I already overproduce on my solar, even if I have to switch to EV2. I have a few of the installers offering to buy my Powerwall. I am up to $9,500 including Gateway. If anyone here wants to offer more, I would rather see it go to someone on this forum. It would require shipping or local Sacramento/Bay Area delivery/pick up, and there is a chance you could get the $1,000 credit Tesla will give after installation, by an authorized Tesla installer. I would verify prior to sale.

 

[SMAlset]

Regarding @Nosken’s comment “...I'm not sure I even need the Powerwall, since I already overproduce on my solar...”, no amount of overproduction of solar will do anything for you in a power outage. Solar doesn’t work then to help supply power to your house. No solar panel production, no grid, house is dead. Sometimes people don’t realize that as seen by a few posts on the forum and it’s an important distinction about solar alone. That’s the true value of adding PW battery backup to your system, along with the ability to store energy for use even when the grid is up but the cost of electricity is high and you can take advantage of the free solar-generated power captured earlier and stored.

 

[rdunniii]

Sorry, your story is trivial. I signed a contract with Tesla Solar in August of 2017 for panels and a Powerwall, paid the $500 deposit, got all the plans back from Tesla and approved by my HOA and ... nothing, 3 years later. They now say they want to start all over again with new plans and a new (additional) deposit. Ahhh, no.

As soon as another solar provider works with another battery backup company I will be talking to them (Generac apeaars to make a nice unit). I am not going to do them separately because of both potential incompatibility and the loss of the 30% tax credit on the backup. And now I'm finding out from neighbors who did have Tesla do the solar panels only that during a bright sun shiny day, if there is a grid power outage, your solar panels also go off line because apparently the management system is powered only by grid power.

 

[BrettS]

As soon as another solar provider works with another battery backup company I will be talking to them (Generac apeaars to make a nice unit). I am not going to do them separately because of both potential incompatibility and the loss of the 30% tax credit on the backup.

I’m sorry you ran into so many issues. A couple of quick comments though. There is no more 30% tax credit. At the beginning of the year it dropped to 26% for installs that happen before the end of 2020 and next year it drops to 22% for installs that happen during 2021. And after that the tax credit is scheduled to go away entirely for residential installs. So if you are looking to take advantage of the tax credit you need to get something installed soon.

And now I'm finding out from neighbors who did have Tesla do the solar panels only that during a bright sun shiny day, if there is a grid power outage, your solar panels also go off line because apparently the management system is powered only by grid power.

That’s not a tesla thing, but rather the way it works for any grid tied solar only installation. When the grid goes down the solar system shuts off to prevent it from backfeeding power to the grid and potentially causing damage or injury. It sounds counter intuitive that your solar system needs to be off on a bright sunny day, but that’s the way it needs to be to keep things safe.

However, if you have a system with solar and batteries, like the tesla powerwall, then your solar system is able to operate when the grid is down and keep your house powered because excess power is able to be fed safely into your battery storage.

 

[joehuber]

So your choice is to have waited 3 years for nothing, or wait 3.5 years for something. If the outcome is worth having I'd think the better ROI would be to wait the extra 6 months to get that outcome.... yes patience is a virtue but no one ever said it was easy nor fun. ;-)

 

[Redhill_qik]

So your choice is to have waited 3 years for nothing, or wait 3.5 years for something. If the outcome is worth having I'd think the better ROI would be to wait the extra 6 months to get that outcome.... yes patience is a virtue but no one ever said it was easy nor fun. ;-)

Normally you need to be careful with the sunk cost fallacy, but in this case the cost is time only, the original $500 deposit would be applied to the new system and in that 3 year waiting period the price of the system has gone down substantially.

 

[SMAlset]

Sorry, your story is trivial. I signed a contract with Tesla Solar in August of 2017 for panels and a Powerwall, paid the $500 deposit, got all the plans back from Tesla and approved by my HOA and ... nothing, 3 years later. They now say they want to start all over again with new plans and a new (additional) deposit. Ahhh, no.

As soon as another solar provider works with another battery backup company I will be talking to them (Generac apeaars to make a nice unit). I am not going to do them separately because of both potential incompatibility and the loss of the 30% tax credit on the backup. And now I'm finding out from neighbors who did have Tesla do the solar panels only that during a bright sun shiny day, if there is a grid power outage, your solar panels also go off line because apparently the management system is powered only by grid power.

Why have you had a 3 year wait?? Was this with SolarCity directly and you somehow fell through the cracks or were they not servicing your area back then and subsequently fell through the cracks? I'm sorry I just don't understand. Did you get to the stage of an install date? We only started with Tesla Energy this past January and the deposit at that time was only $100. I know lots of other people on here have a mix of SolarCity/Tesla Energy products and can't say I've seen any issues about them not having their installations.

Install wait time has varied but did you hold off for some reason? I can see now that equipment from back then has changed (for the better) and that plans will all have to be redrawn and it will require Tesla Energy to essentially start over. Any permits if applied for would have expired (our city they are only good for one year) so all those fees will have to be paid again. Building codes might have changed, equipment certainly has, your roof has aged and suspect your HOA will want all new current info as well. So are they asking for $100 to start over?

As I mentioned there are people who didn't have a good understanding of how solar and battery back up works to understand that just getting solar alone (which still has lots of year round benefits) won't do a thing for you in a power outage of any sort.

 

[flyguyjake]

Isn't it possibly because Powerwall 3 is coming?

 

[Electrph]

Isn't it possibly because Powerwall 3 is coming?

Uh ..... negative

 

[moose]

We live in Australia, where the first Powerwalls were installed (along with Germany). We built our house in 2016 and ordered one of the first 100 PW1 that came into the country. We had number 58. We dealt with a small engineering firm out of Sydney that installed the first PW in Australia. As we had raked ceilings we needed to get the wiring into the roof while we were building, which they did. BTW, we live on the Sunshine Coast north of Brisbane. We moved into the house in June, PW was installed in July and it took Energex another month to activate. We have PW1, which stores 6.3 kw, 20 solar panels and 5 kw SolarEdge inverter. Our total cost was AU$16,000 (US $11,700). We have never had an electricity bill that wasn't in credit. More or less breaks even. Big credit in the summer months and offset by charges in the winter months. We have a hot tub and hot water heater which are our biggest electricity users. We would use roughly AU$2,000 per year, so our system is half paid for. In the 4 years, plus a month or so, we produced 30.23 Mwh from our system. Meter reading since installment (as of 5 Sept): 8873 kw usage and 3675 back into the grid. If you look at the math, we get charged a lot more than we get credit for what we return to the grid.

When we have a power failure, which does occur, especially when tropical cyclone can knock out power lines. We've gone two days without power. In nanosecond, the Powerwall kicks in and operates our main fridge and lights in the area of the house that we live in. If the power goes off for extended period, we hook up the other fridges in the house, Internet and TV's. You avoid anything with elements as that's your big draws. As long as it's sunny during the day, we never run out of power for our basic needs. Forget water heater or hot tub or kettle, coffee maker and the like.

PS: We don't have the car yet. Still have a deposit on a Model 3, but we'll wait for the Y and we hope the high density storage battery and V2G will be there by then.

 

[jboy210]

... And now I'm finding out from neighbors who did have Tesla do the solar panels only that during a bright sun shiny day, if there is a grid power outage, your solar panels also go off line because apparently the management system is powered only by grid power.

This true of all solar-only systems. They need the grid to provide a place to send any excess power and provide synchronization.

This is why so many of us buy Powerwalls and it's management components. They fill in for the loss of the grid in an outage. Excess power is stored in the Powerwalls and when they are filled, the management components shut down solar production until you drain the battery a bit. This cycle repeats throughout the time solar is produced.

And as needed, your home is powered from either solar, powerwall, or both. You can see this in the image below from the Tesla phone app. Here we see the grid is down and solar is producing energy. Most of this energy is being stored in the powerwall batteries, but 0.6 kW is powering the house. These amounts change moment to moment as the solar production and demands of the house change.