Unhappy with moderation and personal attacks?

[Doug_G]

A few points:

First of all, people don't get banned for a single incident. It is a pattern of behavior that causes them to be given a time out. Doug generally gives them a one-week temporary ban; only if the individual in question continues with egregious behavior do they get a permanent ban.

Secondly, most of the infractions are brought to the moderators' attention via complaints from members. The moderators can't read every message because there is far too much traffic on the forum these days. All of the people who have received sanctions recently have been the cause of multiple complaints from other forum members.

Third... I've mostly not been involved in the recent controversies, as Model S and Model X forums aren't my department (Site Feedback is though). While I've not been dealing with this for the most part, I've seen the reports/complaints and the resulting moderator discussions. From where I sit, the recent actions were all warranted. Even if an individual makes massive positive contributions to the forum, that does not give them a pass for rude behavior.

 

[bollar]

Third... I've mostly not been involved in the recent controversies, as Model S and Model X forums aren't my department (Site Feedback is though). While I've not been dealing with this for the most part, I've seen the reports/complaints and the resulting moderator discussions. From where I sit, the recent actions were all warranted. Even if an individual makes massive positive contributions to the forum, that does not give them a pass for rude behavior.

Thank you.

I think an occasional break is healthy for all of us. Some choose it for ourselves; others have it chosen for us.

 

[Electricfan]

A few points:

First of all, people don't get banned for a single incident. It is a pattern of behavior that causes them to be given a time out. Doug generally gives them a one-week temporary ban; only if the individual in question continues with egregious behavior do they get a permanent ban.

Secondly, most of the infractions are brought to the moderators' attention via complaints from members. The moderators can't read every message because there is far too much traffic on the forum these days. All of the people who have received sanctions recently have been the cause of multiple complaints from other forum members.

Third... I've mostly not been involved in the recent controversies, as Model S and Model X forums aren't my department (Site Feedback is though). While I've not been dealing with this for the most part, I've seen the reports/complaints and the resulting moderator discussions. From where I sit, the recent actions were all warranted. Even if an individual makes massive positive contributions to the forum, that does not give them a pass for rude behavior.

Why do you put "Banned" under their name? Does it serve a purpose? Why change anything at all? Or why not put "Inactive"? "banned" just seems a little petty or vindictive for a forum to officially sanction.

Name-calling is against TOS right? Isn't this name-calling?

 

[bollar]

Why do you put "Banned" under their name? Does it serve a purpose? Why change anything at all? Or why not put "Inactive"? "banned" just seems a little petty or vindictive for a forum to officially sanction.

It's what the forum software calls users who do not currently have access. I don't know if that can be customized or not.

 

[Electricfan]

It's what the forum software calls users who do not currently have access. I don't know if that can be customized or not.

Do you have an opinion on whether the forum putting a derogatory word underneath a user's name is appropriate or not?

(sorry, full disclosure, I was banned a couple of weeks ago or so)

 

[Zaxxon]

Banned is not a derogatory word. It's factual, like awake or asleep.

I don't like this ban, but that's not the reason I'd quibble with it.

 

[Doug_G]

Why do you put "Banned" under their name?

First of all, I don't have the ability to ban people. Only Administrators can do that.

Secondly, that's what the forum software does. It would have to be customized with code modifications; however, the Admins are currently working hard on changing the forum over to an entirely new software platform, so that would be wasted effort at this point.

 

[bollar]

Do you have an opinion on whether the forum putting a derogatory word underneath a user's name is appropriate or not?

(sorry, full disclosure, I was banned a couple of weeks ago or so)

As a forum administrator elsewhere myself, I see the word without emotion.

 

[Canuck]

"Banned" is derogatory? So, for instance, when a hockey player gets a 5 game "ban" its derogatory? That makes no sense to me. Maybe it should be called a 5 game "you're not allowed to play"? Oh, and we had a campfire ban this past summer. Another derogatory title for that one.

People just need to use common courtesy, not think they are the "be all and know all" on threads, and we'd all get along just fine. It's the not difference of opinions that's the problem, it's the manner in which some people chose to express their opinions. Without different opinions, this place would be boring. With respectfully different opinions, this place is great. That's the directions I see the mods taking us and I applaud it.

 

[DrComputer]

I have been "banned" or "moderated" for MONTHS now for doing nothing more that promoting one of out TeslaClubLA events in the forums. Doug has refused to answers requests to remove the ban and most of my messages never seem to get past modereration and get posted (let's see if this one actually gets posted). I was not banned for anything more than posting about an activity that TMC had decided they didn't want discussed on their forums.

 

[dirkhh]

"Banned" is derogatory? So, for instance, when a hockey player gets a 5 game "ban" its derogatory? That makes no sense to me. Maybe it should be called a 5 game "you're not allowed to play"? Oh, and we had a campfire ban this past summer. Another derogatory title for that one.

"Banned" is a status just like "Junior Member". It describes the status of the person. If you don't put something like that there, then other forum members might be confused why that person no longer participates. I see "banned" as rather neutral. It doesn't say "In the dog house because (s)he is a <censored>" (and before anyone jumps on me - I'm mostly supporting mk057 here).

People just need to use common courtesy, not think they are the "be all and know all" on threads, and we'd all get along just fine. It's the not difference of opinions that's the problem, it's the manner in which some people chose to express their opinions. Without different opinions, this place would be boring. With respectfully different opinions, this place is great. That's the directions I see the mods taking us and I applaud it.

I completely agree. I disagree with a lot of people here on a lot of topics - as long as things stay civil and reasonably respectful it's all good. And personally I'm quite happy to get some pointed teasing where I deserve it.
The challenge (and that brings me back to wk057) is staying calm when you are attacked. As I said earlier, I tended to feel that wk057 mostly shot BACK. I'd agree that not shooting back, actually taking the "off duty" time off that he wanted to take, might have been better. But in general I don't think he's the aggressor.
That said, asking the moderators and admins to figure this out, to wade through pages and pages of back and forth and escalation? Not useful

Moral? Let's all stay calm and relaxed and don't get upset.

Oh, yeah. And I wish I was able to follow my own advice all the times... :-/

 

[HankLloydRight]

the Admins are currently working hard on changing the forum over to an entirely new software platform, so that would be wasted effort at this point.

Ruh roh... what software? Gosh, vBulletin seems to be working so well. Why the change?

 

[dirkhh]

Ruh roh... what software? Gosh, vBulletin seems to be working so well. Why the change?

I can give you two reasons...
a) scaling... when 80 thousand new owners descend on TMC next year and the 150 thousand people waiting for their Model 3...
b) the reputation system. Because we all know that the current system is broken, yet reputation points are the only reason why we participate here, right?



But I'd be curious what doug and crew are switching to... anyone care to enlighten us?

 

[hockeythug]

Anyways, I'm sure he will be back after his timeout period is complete.

 

[HankLloydRight]

a) scaling... when 80 thousand new owners descend on TMC next year and the 150 thousand people waiting for their Model 3...

I've had this exact same discussion on anther vB forum thinking of upgrading.

Here are a bunch of forums much larger than TMC all running vB 4.x.

For reference -- TMC: Threads 44,354 Posts 1,145,737 Members 29,640

http://www.bikeforums.net/ -- Threads 936,028 Posts 17,273,972 Members 316,680
http://www.howardforums.com -- Threads 1,772,276 Posts 15,722,960 Members 1,138,258
http://www.zyngaplayerforums.com/ -- Threads 2,050,413 Posts 13,518,847 Members 4,141,111
http://www.tivocommunity.com (running vB 3.8): Threads: 243,928, Posts: 7,127,795, Members: 281,550
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/ -- Threads 6,510,669 Posts 124,757,512 Members 11,198,315
My own forum: Threads 194,100 Posts 4,375,300 Members 21,210

There are many more examples like this. So TMC is big and growing. But it's not *that* big.

If website performance here is an issue, it's likely easily addressed with better hardware, more memory, SSDs, load balancing, VMs, and/or database replication (for searches). IF searching is the bottleneck, there are software solutions for that too that plugin to vB. I'd do all of that before even thinking of replacing the forum software. In my experience, that's going to take longer, and cost more than hardware upgrades/expansion. Just MHO.

 

[woof]

If website performance here is an issue...

One of the big items for me is HTTPS access, and I recall from previous discussions that was one of the reasons to switch software as well.

 

[dirkhh]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/ -- Threads 6,510,669 Posts 124,757,512 Members 11,198,315
My own forum: Threads 194,100 Posts 4,375,300 Members 21,210

There are many more examples like this. So TMC is big and growing. But it's not *that* big.

That settles it, then. It's the reputation system. Just as I am closing in on ten green bars... :-(

 

[HankLloydRight]

One of the big items for me is HTTPS access, and I recall from previous discussions that was one of the reasons to switch software as well.

That's actually a pretty trivial thing to do. That's not a reason to dump vB4.

 

[ohmman]

Back on topic, since the main topic is moderation, I have this to say. I used to participate lightly and lurk less lightly on the official TM forums. Those lacked moderation and were a mess because of it. The only reason I'm here is because of the good, fair work that in my opinion is performed by the mods. I likewise rarely read "comments" on news articles unless they're moderated, and even then only rarely. Moderators do good work and keep things under control. I appreciate them.

Now, about my posts that got moved to snippiness.. surely those were just a mistake. :smile:

It's like the old saying.. how does that go? All things, including forums, in and with moderation?

 

[BoerumHill]

b) the reputation system. Because we all know that the current system is broken, yet reputation points are the only reason why we participate here, right?

I'm here for the pony. I was told there would be ponies.