ℬête Noire
Active Member
My money is on someone squaring the circle.
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Unlimited supercharging for performance model 3's
- Thread starter Gavyne
- Start date
Garlan Garner
Banned
What is it about supercharging that has people not wanting to use as much as they want?
Buffet's are "all you can eat". <----and people don't have a problem with that
"Unlimited texting" <---------and people don't have a problem with that
"Unlimited calls: <--------and people don't have a problem with that
"Unlimited miles" on car rentals <---------and people don't have a problem with that
Why is it when it comes to supercharging.....that there is a problem with "Unlimited use"?
I really don't understand.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Everyone got those. first day / line waiter are not the only ones getting those.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Do you eat more than you normally would if each item was ala carte?
Would you send less texts if you were charged on a per text or character basis?
Do you make less calls when you roam internationally?
Can you find Model 3s on Turo with unlimited mile rentals at any price?
—
Most of the examples don’t even relate to supercharging because your unlimited texting does not limit my ability to text unlimitedly.
I feel these are very obvious things to even non economics majors.
How to best explain.. when something is perceived as “free” people will overconsume more than they normally would.
If people could fill up their powerwalls with Tesla’s, they would be making SC trips back and forth to do so.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
Sure people use more than they would if it weren't free.....however I don't understand the problem with that.
Yet....Tesla knowingly gave free supercharging to Performance Model 3's. They didn't have to.
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Great.. this will make the superchargers even less usable than they are now... more wait lines, more 30 kWh supercharging... it’s all awesome... especially for the guys on Non performance model 3s living in apartments who are very dependent on superchargers and have to wait 2 hours and pay 25 cents per kWh.
And yeah if you drive by a free supercharger that is a nice location like the one at the San Clemente CA outlet stores.. just stop there and enjoy free Starbucks coffee... that free ice cream while your car is charging..
But Don’t worry... the only people who use superchargers are people on road trips.... nothing can go wrong.
And yeah if you drive by a free supercharger that is a nice location like the one at the San Clemente CA outlet stores.. just stop there and enjoy free Starbucks coffee... that free ice cream while your car is charging..
But Don’t worry... the only people who use superchargers are people on road trips.... nothing can go wrong.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Garlan Garner
Banned
Oh wait....Tesla put a supercharger at a mall? And they expect that supercharger to be for road-only use? Really?
Why would they put a road ONLY supercharger at a mall? hmmmm
Tesla put superchargers at "nice" off the road locations? hmmmmm Someone needs to call Tesla and tell them they are putting superchargers in the wrong location...and that they should only be putting them on the road in the middle of nowhere.
Me using it prevents you from using it. What if I live a block away. You are hundreds of miles way from home.
You will see for yourself. Both of my Tesla’s qualify for free supercharging so that should tell you something when I can see the moral hazzard plain as day.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I won't know where anyone is from at a supercharger. How will you know? Do you assume everyone is local?
You aren't explaining what's immoral.
Its free. Like slurpies at 7-11 on July 11th.
Are you suggesting that Tesla shouldn't give away unlimited supercharging to Model 3 performance owners?
Garlan Garner
Banned
Ok....please answer at least a few of my questions. Unless this is a one way conversation.
Generally speaking, none of your examples above have a material impact on other consumers. Superchargers OTOH are a limited resource, as such some of the characteristics of a zero-sum game apply.
Garlan Garner
Banned
"limited resource" Why? Because superchargers aren't plentiful enough to not impact other customers?
Looks like Tesla needs to get on the ball and get more out there. lol
1336 Supercharger locations planet wide just aint enough is it?
As of today..
556 Supercharger locations in the US.
20 locations under construction in the US.
43 location permits active in the US,
Lobby Tesla and tell them its not enough. THEN when tesla makes enough.....Superchargers will match my examples ….right?
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TD_alseT
Member
Big Earl. when I spoke to my local reps, they gave me the option of upgrading to the performance model and keeping premium connectivity (fyi - they also said that premium was only ~$100 a year...) It is worth asking.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
You've got to laugh at the faux moral outrage.
Supercharging is not, was not, and will never be "free". Have a look at the cost of maintenance ($9000 over 4 years/100K miles with the ESA, minimal visits at $200/per after 50K miles, the 4 annual servicings and some tires, but just pretend that doesn't exist) or the depreciation when bought new. How about those Tesla trade-in value offers, eh? Yeah.
So after dispelling the fallacy of "free", we move on to the rest of the moral outrage - entitlement and exclusionary thinking.
There are still a few people who think superchargers are for distance travel only and that all owners are garaged. This has been an oft-parroted lie since late 2014 and probably before then as well. Since at least late 2014, the non-garaged have had carte blanche at SCs - that's for ad libitum usage *unless and until they get home or work charging*. Period. Much like the original Scripture versus canon law, any assertions to the contrary are NOT from the original source, but from people's manipulations or best efforts since. Try not to go down that rabbit hole.
Now, what *has* changed? Well, vehicles purchased after a certain date may not use SCing for ride sharing, and presumably livery will fall into that bucket. Sooo many more tagged (in CA, see the TCP lettering) livery Teslas use SCs, but all you read about in the fora are the entitled/exclusionist whining about TesLoop. TesLoop has, count 'em, 10-12 vehicles on the road. That's it. In a word, big deal. But if they buy non-grandfathered vehicles after the aforementioned date, Tesla now can restrict their usage per the new policy. Of course, all ride sharing done via the Tesla Network that does not yet exist will be exempt. Lol.
As well, Tesla is again playing games with "free unlimited" SCing after the bait and switch debacle from last Spring - now, as we know, Performance 3s enjoy "free unlimited" SCing, presumably for the first owner only. OK. Still ain't free - the P will cost you $11K plus tax, for openers.
It's worth repeating since the faux moralists, most of whom don't use SCs on a regular basis or even own Teslas in some cases, seem to have a problem with reality versus their perception of how things should be. To wit, the NUMBER ONE problem at SCs is not livery. It is not the mythical freeloading garaged owner "stealing" juice. It is not even the non-garaged owner given carte blanche by Tesla to use SCs. It is, has been, and for the foreseeable future will be ICEing by our own. Examples include the generic owner who is either clueless or ignorant who pairs up unnecessarily at a traditional SC or who wanders off at any SC (including the new urban style) and wanders back 20 minutes after their charge is complete. As I've noted - want to turn an 8 stall SC into a 2 stall SC? Dawdle.
Tesla and technology *will* solve this problem. And probably in a very cool and elegant manner. Actually, manners plural. Doubling throughput (defined as number of vehicles per day) via faster charging will happen. I wouldn't mind idle fees at $1/minute after 60 minutes lifetime and at $5/minute after 120 minutes lifetime. Someday, cars with completed charges will magically disconnect themselves, park elsewhere, and come fetch their owners when ready. Cue the Barry White music for those unaware that this *will* happen.
Meanwhile, it is up to us to educate our fellow owners when we see them transgressing at an SC. So many are not yet part of local or regional owners clubs or have even heard of or use any of the fora, including these. Most have no idea about pairing, or about the idle fees, and some don't know to change their charge limit from 100% to 80% or 70%. Think about how much time *that* saves. You can't tell a non-garaged from a garaged from a distance/traveling from a local owner most of the time. But you can, in a friendly manner, note to them that if they move to a different stall (if available), both they and you will charge faster, and to please not wander off next time when there's a line of people waiting. The best practice is to return to your chariot a few minutes *before* the charge is complete - remember, if you're on time, you're late.
Lately, there have been lines at more SoCal SCs at peak times. Most of this is on Tesla to stay ahead of demand by converting their pipe dream forecast maps into reality sooner than later. But a little education goes a long way. And we can no longer count on new owners to get that education during their 5-minute orientation, nor through post-sale follow up.
Finally, a word about SC usage and savings. As a non-garaged owner, I don't get close to rated range while in town. Not close. While I do get all of it on the road, I'll hit 4 or 5 SCs during a full day on the road as well (of course, outside California and a couple of other places, SCs are still rarely if ever full, or even populated at all). Ergo, SCing to me is worth easily $3K *per year*. It's worth more to grandfathered livery and to the very few actual road warriors out there, but their days are numbered as inventory is retired. Remember that most Teslas are not driven even 100K before the original owner trades them in or sells them.
Supercharging is not, was not, and will never be "free". Have a look at the cost of maintenance ($9000 over 4 years/100K miles with the ESA, minimal visits at $200/per after 50K miles, the 4 annual servicings and some tires, but just pretend that doesn't exist) or the depreciation when bought new. How about those Tesla trade-in value offers, eh? Yeah.
So after dispelling the fallacy of "free", we move on to the rest of the moral outrage - entitlement and exclusionary thinking.
There are still a few people who think superchargers are for distance travel only and that all owners are garaged. This has been an oft-parroted lie since late 2014 and probably before then as well. Since at least late 2014, the non-garaged have had carte blanche at SCs - that's for ad libitum usage *unless and until they get home or work charging*. Period. Much like the original Scripture versus canon law, any assertions to the contrary are NOT from the original source, but from people's manipulations or best efforts since. Try not to go down that rabbit hole.
Now, what *has* changed? Well, vehicles purchased after a certain date may not use SCing for ride sharing, and presumably livery will fall into that bucket. Sooo many more tagged (in CA, see the TCP lettering) livery Teslas use SCs, but all you read about in the fora are the entitled/exclusionist whining about TesLoop. TesLoop has, count 'em, 10-12 vehicles on the road. That's it. In a word, big deal. But if they buy non-grandfathered vehicles after the aforementioned date, Tesla now can restrict their usage per the new policy. Of course, all ride sharing done via the Tesla Network that does not yet exist will be exempt. Lol.
As well, Tesla is again playing games with "free unlimited" SCing after the bait and switch debacle from last Spring - now, as we know, Performance 3s enjoy "free unlimited" SCing, presumably for the first owner only. OK. Still ain't free - the P will cost you $11K plus tax, for openers.
It's worth repeating since the faux moralists, most of whom don't use SCs on a regular basis or even own Teslas in some cases, seem to have a problem with reality versus their perception of how things should be. To wit, the NUMBER ONE problem at SCs is not livery. It is not the mythical freeloading garaged owner "stealing" juice. It is not even the non-garaged owner given carte blanche by Tesla to use SCs. It is, has been, and for the foreseeable future will be ICEing by our own. Examples include the generic owner who is either clueless or ignorant who pairs up unnecessarily at a traditional SC or who wanders off at any SC (including the new urban style) and wanders back 20 minutes after their charge is complete. As I've noted - want to turn an 8 stall SC into a 2 stall SC? Dawdle.
Tesla and technology *will* solve this problem. And probably in a very cool and elegant manner. Actually, manners plural. Doubling throughput (defined as number of vehicles per day) via faster charging will happen. I wouldn't mind idle fees at $1/minute after 60 minutes lifetime and at $5/minute after 120 minutes lifetime. Someday, cars with completed charges will magically disconnect themselves, park elsewhere, and come fetch their owners when ready. Cue the Barry White music for those unaware that this *will* happen.
Meanwhile, it is up to us to educate our fellow owners when we see them transgressing at an SC. So many are not yet part of local or regional owners clubs or have even heard of or use any of the fora, including these. Most have no idea about pairing, or about the idle fees, and some don't know to change their charge limit from 100% to 80% or 70%. Think about how much time *that* saves. You can't tell a non-garaged from a garaged from a distance/traveling from a local owner most of the time. But you can, in a friendly manner, note to them that if they move to a different stall (if available), both they and you will charge faster, and to please not wander off next time when there's a line of people waiting. The best practice is to return to your chariot a few minutes *before* the charge is complete - remember, if you're on time, you're late.
Lately, there have been lines at more SoCal SCs at peak times. Most of this is on Tesla to stay ahead of demand by converting their pipe dream forecast maps into reality sooner than later. But a little education goes a long way. And we can no longer count on new owners to get that education during their 5-minute orientation, nor through post-sale follow up.
Finally, a word about SC usage and savings. As a non-garaged owner, I don't get close to rated range while in town. Not close. While I do get all of it on the road, I'll hit 4 or 5 SCs during a full day on the road as well (of course, outside California and a couple of other places, SCs are still rarely if ever full, or even populated at all). Ergo, SCing to me is worth easily $3K *per year*. It's worth more to grandfathered livery and to the very few actual road warriors out there, but their days are numbered as inventory is retired. Remember that most Teslas are not driven even 100K before the original owner trades them in or sells them.
Yep. I called and confirmed that we would keep the free unlimited connectivity if we upgrade.
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