[Update: It happened] Track Mode not happening for P3d-

[ModelNforNerd]

It wouldn't be the first time an automaker has put GPS restrictions on track features. From Nissan GT-R - Wikipedia:



Not that I think Tesla will do that unless people abuse track mode and it ends up in the press too much.

But with many properly-sanctioned AutoCross associations moving from airstrip to airstrip, and parking lot to parking lot.....

what happens if the local stadium parking lot is an AutoCross track on Saturday, and I'm still able to put the car in Track Mode at that location and do donuts through everyone's tailgates on Sunday??


Real life isn't 1's and 0's. They're just gonna go with the disclaimer.

 

[Knightshade]

Fair enough, but what do other OEMs that offer similar functionality do?

Most other performance vehicles offer a "real" LSD instead of pretending to have one with heavy use of brakes

And most just put giant traditional cooling systems on the engine and transmission without having to worry about overheating giant battery packs.

So a bit of apples and cabbages there.

the nearest to "modes that break the car" you get with ICE are the super hard launch mode things- and usually those have limits included either in software or in the written documentation (anybody remember the GT-R launch control debacle?)

Tesla can see just how many miles you've logged in Track Mode. Will they give you bad news if you've gone over a certain number of miles in TM?

These are important things to consider. They may offer it, but they may give you a hard time if you try to claim a Warranty fix over it.

Until/unless they include such restrictions in their warranty terms, or the terms of TM use, they can't do that. (I mean- they can look at the miles- but can't use it as an excuse to deny anything)

 

[Perry]

Most other performance vehicles offer a "real" LSD instead of pretending to have one with heavy use of brakes

And most just put giant traditional cooling systems on the engine and transmission without having to worry about overheating giant battery packs.

So a bit of apples and cabbages there.

the nearest to "modes that break the car" you get with ICE are the super hard launch mode things- and usually those have limits included either in software or in the written documentation (anybody remember the GT-R launch control debacle?)





Until/unless they include such restrictions in their warranty terms, or the terms of TM use, they can't do that. (I mean- they can look at the miles- but can't use it as an excuse to deny anything)

Tesla should welcome failures like this so they can learn from them. An overclocked AC where I live, which deosn't get too hot might get the same use as one in Arizona where it gets really hot without using Track Mode. So having parts put to heavy use is, in general, a good thing for companies that want to improve their product and get real life data points of failure. Besides I am sure the majority of owners will not use Track Mode outside of the track, limiting Tesla's warranty liability. But they do need a few nut cases like me.

 

[daniloreyes]

Track Mode will be welcomed as I'm getting my 20's soon...

 

[juanmedina]

Most other performance vehicles offer a "real" LSD instead of pretending to have one with heavy use of brakes

And most just put giant traditional cooling systems on the engine and transmission without having to worry about overheating giant battery packs.

So a bit of apples and cabbages there.

the nearest to "modes that break the car" you get with ICE are the super hard launch mode things- and usually those have limits included either in software or in the written documentation (anybody remember the GT-R launch control debacle?)





Until/unless they include such restrictions in their warranty terms, or the terms of TM use, they can't do that. (I mean- they can look at the miles- but can't use it as an excuse to deny anything)

Like the Mclaren Senna and the P1

 

[Knightshade]

Like the Mclaren Senna and the P1

Yes, a hand-built nearly million dollar car they only make a few hundred of is a perfectly reasonable comparison to a 50-70k street car. Very compelling point.

 

[juanmedina]

Yes, a hand-built nearly million dollar car they only make a few hundred of is a perfectly reasonable comparison to a 50-70k street car. Very compelling point.

My point was that the car that was designed to be the fastest car in the world around the track doesn't have a LSD

 

[Knightshade]

My point was that the car that was designed to be the fastest car in the world around the track doesn't have a LSD

No, but it does have insanely expensive carbon ceramic brakes to handle using them hard for torque vectoring- versus the Model 3 where even the stock-upgrade brakes have issues after 2 or 3 laps.

When you charge almost a million bucks for a car you can afford to throw 5-figure brakes on it standard... when the whole car is 5 figures that's a tougher lift.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

When you charge almost a million bucks for a car you can afford to throw 5-figure brakes on it standard... when the whole car is 5 figures that's a tougher lift.

Which is why I chuckle when someone keeps calling them the economy brakes.

 

[juanmedina]

No, but it does have insanely expensive carbon ceramic brakes to handle using them hard for torque vectoring- versus the Model 3 where even the stock-upgrade brakes have issues after 2 or 3 laps.

When you charge almost a million bucks for a car you can afford to throw 5-figure brakes on it standard... when the whole car is 5 figures that's a tougher lift.

brake pads upgrade.....

OEM pads are not designed on the track. OEM pads on 911s, STIs, EVOs, M3s are trashed after a single track day. Tracking a car on OEM pads is just silly.

 

[12yan]

When you charge almost a million bucks for a car you can afford to throw 5-figure brakes on it standard

Most other performance vehicles offer a "real" LSD instead of pretending to have one with heavy use of brakes

I think the point is you were implying that using brakes is "fake" LSD and is "pretending to have one". So by that logic McLarens are just fake pretenders. Also the brakes aren't used for torque vectoring but torque steering. Torque vectoring involves altering torque between front and rear

 

[Knightshade]

I think the point is you were implying that using brakes is "fake" LSD and is "pretending to have one". So by that logic McLarens are just fake pretenders. Also the brakes aren't used for torque vectoring but torque steering.

So there's a few errors in your post.

First, the brakes are absolutely used for torque vectoring in the McLarens. McLaren invented torque vectoring back in F1 using brakes.

Here's a discussion of why they don't use LSDs and their history as having been the first to use brake-based torque vectoring in a car

Why McLaren Uses Open Differentials On Their Cars


Second- I wasn't "implying" anything- I was explicitly stating that using the brakes isn't a 'real' LSD- because it's factually not. There's pros and cons to either method (the link above discussions some of them).... having the budget to put very expensive brakes on the car offsets one of the disadvantages to skipping an LSD of course, which is what they do on McLarens.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

So there's a few errors in your post.

First, the brakes are absolutely used for torque vectoring in the McLarens. McLaren invented torque vectoring back in F1 using brakes.

Here's a discussion of why they don't use LSDs and their history as having been the first to use brake-based torque vectoring in a car

Why McLaren Uses Open Differentials On Their Cars


Second- I wasn't "implying" anything- I was explicitly stating that using the brakes isn't a 'real' LSD- because it's factually not. There's pros and cons to either method (the link above discussions some of them).... having the budget to put very expensive brakes on the car offsets one of the disadvantages to skipping an LSD of course, which is what they do on McLarens.

Your last sentence kinda touches on it: which is more expensive with hard wear and tear? Replacing a LSD? or brakes?

 

[Knightshade]

Your last sentence kinda touches on it: which is more expensive with hard wear and tear? Replacing a LSD? or brakes?

A quality gear driven LSD doesn't really wear out though....tons of folks with hundreds of thousands of miles on them out there (Torsens, qualfies, etc)....Cheaper clutch based ones can over time, but then they're also a lot cheaper to replace

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Cheaper clutch based ones can over time, but then they're also a lot cheaper to replace

which is why Audi has gone in that direction.

 

[12yan]

the brakes are absolutely used for torque vectoring

I was referring to the model 3 as you were implying (yes, implying) that the model 3 is using brakes for torque vectoring:

it does have insanely expensive carbon ceramic brakes to handle using them hard for torque vectoring- versus the Model 3 where even the stock-upgrade brakes have issues after 2 or 3 laps.

I wasn't "implying" anything- I was explicitly stating that using the brakes isn't a 'real' LSD

Yeah, you were implying that model 3 uses "fake" LSD, which it is not. It is not trying to fake something, it is a different method to achieving the same goal.

 

[happyzod]

Remember that the model 3 also has Regenerative braking to help reduce the wear on the normal brakes.

 

[Knightshade]

I was referring to the model 3 as you were implying (yes, implying) that the model 3 is using brakes for torque vectoring:

Yeah, you were implying that model 3 uses "fake" LSD, which it is not. It is not trying to fake something, it is a different method to achieving the same goal.

Uh... wut?

The Model 3 also does torque vectoring.

2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance with Track Mode

while the Model 3 does feature a relatively standard stability-control setup, it also has two motors that can come to life in a moment, making for practically instantaneous torque vectoring

and later in the article-

On the autocross course, the Model 3 Performance brings that novelty back. For those with less fine-grained attenuation to the vagaries of torque vectoring and the strategic actuation of individual brake calipers, the lack of sound and vibration means that what each wheel is up to is telegraphed with minimal interference.

(bold added)

So yes- it's doing this (using the dual motors and brakes) in lieu of having 'real' LSDs.

As my previous link notes- there are benefits to this choice- and also drawbacks.

 

[MXWing]

Which is why I chuckle when someone keeps calling them the economy brakes.

Everything is relative. How are the 3P- brakes versus the 3P+ brakes?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Everything is relative. How are the 3P- brakes versus the 3P+ brakes?

I wouldn't call anything on a $50K+ car "economy". Standard equipment, sure. It's that douchey elitism that kills me. $5,000 for wheels and brakes is a bit excessive, especially if it can be outdone for less money.