[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

[alexgr]

Ahh you are correct! His house was at the very end of the the cul de sac:
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Correction: this 2.5m house is listed under his wife's name. They both own another 1m house 2 blocks from this residence.

 

[alexgr]

I think the biggest limitation is time. Just 20 seconds or less. Thats not much of a time to start TACC/AP and move back from the front seat to back (or from driver to passenger). Apart from the age & occupation of the men.

Occam's razor would suggest
- Manual operation
- Moving to a different seat after crash

To get to or above 40 mph over this distance they had no more than about 10 seconds.

 

[alexgr]

I don't think too many people seriously think there's a conspiracy theory by "big media" against Tesla to support the status quo. I think most people who think Tesla is unfairly treated in the media think Tesla gets undue attention because it generates clicks and views, regardless of relevancy or accuracy of the story.

A lot of the same speculation is going on at /r/SelfDrivingCars, which I don't think is particularly pro-Tesla.

I think the self-evident truth is that Yes, Soda, there is a conspiracy against Tesla!

 

[jsmay311]

I think the biggest limitation is time. Just 20 seconds or less. Thats not much of a time to start TACC/AP and move back from the front seat to back (or from driver to passenger). Apart from the age & occupation of the men.

I’m NOT saying I think this happened, but...

You could engage TACC while sitting in the driver’s seat with the belt buckled behind your back, then lower the speed to zero and have the car come to a stop, then crawl into the back, and then have the passenger use the scroll wheel to accelerate.

Highly, highly unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[jsmay311]

To get to or above 40 mph over this distance they had no more than about 10 seconds.

Pretty close to that. In my tests it took about 13 seconds to go the 400 ft accelerating with TACC.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

My AppleNews popped up this story from Vice. While it paints some owners commenting on how this could have happened as conspiracy theorists defending Elon/Tesla LOL, I see us as owners who drive their cars trying to understand how what was reported by the police as driverless as happening compared to what we know about the car and how it drives. Nothing strange trying to understand or a conspiracy angle taken. I think people on these threads learn a lot about the car and deductive reasoning. TMC posts are included in the article. Don’t know about you guys but I have learned a lot from past accident investigations including more than I ever knew before about different types of highway barriers.

Tesla Owners Are ‘Investigating’ the Crash That Killed Two People

After Elon Musk said Autopilot wasn’t engaged in the deadly Tesla crash, fans started drawing diagrams and analyzing maps to attempt to explain it.

www.vice.com

The author clearly doesn't understand the TMC forums. This is place of owners of which over half us including myself are NOT fervent supports of Tesla/Elon. In fact I'd say I'm quite the opposite where the Tesla I have now is likely my last Tesla. It's certainly not my last EV as I'll probably switch to Rivian.

He also seems to have some fundamental misunderstanding of what are main issues are especially with this line.

"The only vaguely cohesive element to all of the line-drawing and forum postings is the idea that people—the media especially, naysayers more broadly—have an agenda against Tesla"

How did he miss the fact that are main issue with the way its being reported is all the articles that claim it was driving on autopilot.

So what we're doing is showing that it couldn't be.

There isn't any conspiracy theory.

We're not saying that it wasn't driverless, but just that given everything we know about the car/crash it simply wasn't possible for it to be the direct result of TACC/AP.

Sure I acknowledge that we won't know what happened until the crash investigators are done, but that's at least 6 months down the road.

 

[BooMan]

The Woodlands Fire Department guys were way more knowledgeable on BEVs than the police department based on comments made to the press from both groups, which I guess I would expect. Still hurts to have officials make comments to the press that travel worldwide and spread misinformation.

What “misinformation “ was spread by police dept?

 

[MikeyC]

To get to or above 40 mph over this distance they had no more than about 10 seconds.

In doing my own calculations based on the angle of the road, the car would be physically capable of staying on the road at about 50 MPH: that'd be about .85G. Of course, that doesn't preclude a driver driving it off the road at a slower speed than the car is capable of, but I suspect they'll find the max speed was probably 70 MPH or above.

Mike

 

[CyberGus]

There isn't any conspiracy theory.

That's what they want you to think

 

[DanCar]

I think the self-evident truth is that Yes, Soda, there is a conspiracy against Tesla!

The reason this story is wide and tall in the news is because it is interesting to many because:

1. People don't understand autopilot and FSD and want to learn more.
2. The media doesn't understand it either.
3. Rich people getting roasted makes for an interesting story.
4. People don't understand the risk associated with battery fires and want to learn more.

Tesla is blazing the trail of autopilot and FSD and it is natural that Tesla will receive increased scrutiny.

 

[qdeathstar]

one would think the “leftist” media would be more pro Tesla...

 

[EVNow]

The reason this story is wide and tall in the news is because

Tesla & Elon sell. Anything that can be remotely linked to Tesla / Elon get linked and mentioned in the story / title.

Its all about media trying to get a few cents from ads - and potentially shaving Billions of $ of investor money as a result. It is really perverse.

Not every story or every media outlet, but pretty much explains Tesla / Elon stories in the media. Elon being a celebrity has its ups & downs.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What “misinformation “ was spread by police dept?

One thing I read that the fire department corrected was how long it took to put out the fire. The police (Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman) said it took 4 hours and 30000+gallons of water.

Herman said it took firefighters nearly four hours and more than 30,000 gallons of water to extinguish the fire.
“Normally when the fire department arrives, they have the vehicle fire in control in minutes, but this went on close to four hours,” said Herman.

PCT 4: Two killed when Tesla catches fire after crashing into tree

This is what happened according to the fire chief:

“With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew out way of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants,” Buck said of inaccurate claims the vehicle burned for hours. “After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage.”
Buck said what is termed in the firefighting profession as “final extinguishment” of the vehicle — a 2019 Tesla — took several hours, but that classification does not mean the vehicle was out-of-control or had live flames. The term is mostly used in relation to structure or wild land forest fires where hot ash that seems extinguished or is buried can later reignite other material and begin burning again.“
We could not tear it apart or move it around to get ‘final extinguishment’ because the fact that we had two bodies in there and it was then an investigation-slash-crime scene,” Buck explained. “We had to keep it cool, were on scene for four hours, but we were simply pouring a little bit of water on it. It was not because flames were coming out. It was a reaction in the battery pan. It was not an active fire.”

Woodlands fire chief says Tesla fire example of new technology causing issues

 

[EVNow]

What “misinformation “ was spread by police dept?

The biggest problem is the below ... clearly a statement that can only be made after investigation.

“They are 100 percent certain that no one was in the driver seat driving that vehicle at the time of impact. They are positive,"

He should have just said the below ... and left it at that (just the facts).

Once the fire was put out, Herman said deputies recovered two bodies from the Telsa and neither one of them was behind the wheel. Herman said one person was found in the front passenger seat and the other person was in the backseat.

 

[alexgr]

My AppleNews popped up this story from Vice. While it paints some owners commenting on how this could have happened as conspiracy theorists defending Elon/Tesla LOL, I see us as owners who drive their cars trying to understand how what was reported by the police as driverless as happening compared to what we know about the car and how it drives. Nothing strange trying to understand or a conspiracy angle taken. I think people on these threads learn a lot about the car and deductive reasoning. TMC posts are included in the article. Don’t know about you guys but I have learned a lot from past accident investigations including more than I ever knew before about different types of highway barriers.

Tesla Owners Are ‘Investigating’ the Crash That Killed Two People

After Elon Musk said Autopilot wasn’t engaged in the deadly Tesla crash, fans started drawing diagrams and analyzing maps to attempt to explain it.

www.vice.com

This story tells a simple truth - the news media failed to do its journalistic duty. The very reason Tesla owners discuss this is because the news media spins this "Tesla autopilot killed people again ... wah" story disregarding some basic facts about Tesla and physics.

 

[ev_go123]

My AppleNews popped up this story from Vice. While it paints some owners commenting on how this could have happened as conspiracy theorists defending Elon/Tesla LOL, I see us as owners who drive their cars trying to understand how what was reported by the police as driverless as happening compared to what we know about the car and how it drives. Nothing strange trying to understand or a conspiracy angle taken. I think people on these threads learn a lot about the car and deductive reasoning. TMC posts are included in the article. Don’t know about you guys but I have learned a lot from past accident investigations including more than I ever knew before about different types of highway barriers.

Tesla Owners Are ‘Investigating’ the Crash That Killed Two People

After Elon Musk said Autopilot wasn’t engaged in the deadly Tesla crash, fans started drawing diagrams and analyzing maps to attempt to explain it.

www.vice.com

Haha they posted a pic of my "line-drawing", I'm honored!!

 

[DaveG_NJ]

I’m NOT saying I think this happened, but...

You could engage TACC while sitting in the driver’s seat with the belt buckled behind your back, then lower the speed to zero and have the car come to a stop, then crawl into the back, and then have the passenger use the scroll wheel to accelerate.

Highly, highly unlikely, but not impossible.

LOL. Perhaps technically possible, but the purported conversation prior to the accident was about a self-driving demo, not how to crash a car and die in a fire. There is no way the good doctor attempted a demo of something he knew the car couldn't do (turn a corner on TACC). And certainly not from the rear seat. It's entirely implausible.

The botched self-driving scenario is a fiction -- the product of people who don't own a Tesla. I'm sure most of us here have given demos to friends and family. Step 1 - floor it and watch their reaction. Step 2 - Autosteer demo on a road that it works while able to take control. People are initially scared, then amazed. No one considers climbing in the back seat, least of all a well-educated professional adult. The theory is silly and insulting.

 

[BooMan]

Until we can see the full log, there are just too many holes to poke through and we can imagine all kinds of crazy scenarios.

Each task by itself is possible but how many tasks fit together to make sense is still a mystery.

The police said no one drove it.

Elon implied that not his Autopilot either.

If humans didn't, Autopilot didn't, then come on... who or what did?

Police never said no one drove it. They said no one was in driver seat driving at time of impact. Subtle but very important difference. Cops tend to be overly precise in their language (for reasons....). One does not have to be in driver seat to drive a car (..go check YouTube),and no, AP or FSD has nothing to do with this - nor has it been implied by any authorities.

 

[alexgr]

Police never said no one drove it. They said no one was in driver seat driving at time of impact. Subtle but very important difference. Cops tend to be overly precise in their language (for reasons....). One does not have to be in driver seat to drive a car (..go check YouTube),and no, AP or FSD has nothing to do with this - nor has it been implied by any authorities.

“They feel very confident just with the positioning of the bodies after the impact that there was no one driving that vehicle,” Herman told KHOU-TV.

Read more here: https://www.sunherald.com/news/business/article250774344.html#storylink=cpy

 

[alexgr]

Police never said no one drove it. They said no one was in driver seat driving at time of impact. Subtle but very important difference. Cops tend to be overly precise in their language (for reasons....). One does not have to be in driver seat to drive a car (..go check YouTube),and no, AP or FSD has nothing to do with this - nor has it been implied by any authorities.

Even more: (‘No one was driving the car’: 2 men dead after fiery Tesla crash near The Woodlands, officials say)
"Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman told KPRC 2 that the investigation showed “no one was driving” the fully electric 2019 Tesla when the accident happened." .... He said he believes it wasn’t being driven by a human.
Remember, Mark Herman is an elected official, republican, driving a truck, and running red lights.