[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

[SMAlset]

To be fair, it's not proven he's the driver, but trying to avoid a DUI would give a fairly strong incentive to move out of the driver's seat.

More like he was conscious after the accident (somehow inebriated drivers survive accidents) and was trying to escape the flames that were coming from the front of the car.

While not “proven”, Reuters had previously reported “The NTSB said footage from the owner’s home security cameras showed the owner entering the driver’s seat and the passenger entering the front passenger seat.”

Have to wonder what transpired with the wives who were with the guys during dinner and getting dropped off after and knowing they wanting to get into a vehicle to go for a drive. Didn’t see a mention of toxicology on the front passenger seat person but would you get into a car with a driver under the influence? Have to say from the outset I didn’t really think DUI was going to play into this. I wonder when the report will come out.

 

[Tam]

To be fair, it's not proven he's the driver, but trying to avoid a DUI would give a fairly strong incentive to move out of the driver's seat.

This new DUI finding is consistent with the NTSB preliminary report that states:

"Footage from the owner’s home security camera shows the owner entering the car’s driver’s seat and the passenger entering the front passenger seat."

 

[SMAlset]

If this was a DUI accident, how sad in this day and age and involving people their age and education.

 

[gangzoom]

If this was a DUI accident, how sad in this day and age and involving people their age and education.

People will be people, autonomous technology would have actually prevented this accident.

The fact a Federal investigation is ongoing also shows something about how Tesla is seen by those with power.

Would a government investigation be launched for any other brand of car where a fatal accident occurred with a drunk driver in a car they recently acquired??

We don't need another Tesla, but stories like these is almost enough for me to go and buy another one. The resistance to change from the establishment really is staggering!

 

[SMAlset]

I’m curious to see how long it takes for local Houston news to report this. That and other publications that were quick to report on the crash story.

 

[SMAlset]

Bloomberg has a more detailed article on this. I was able to read it as my one “free” article, so if you’re not a subscriber maybe you can also from this link.

“Tesla Crash Victim’s Autopsy Shows Alcohol Above Legal Limit” by Dana Hall, updated September 3, 2021 @ 3:10pm

Tesla Crash Victim’s Autopsy Shows Alcohol Above Legal Limit

The Tesla owner killed along with a friend last spring in a fiery crash outside Houston had almost twice his state’s legal limit of alcohol in his system, an autopsy report obtained by Bloomberg News shows.

www.bloomberg.com

Both husbands had drank, one a beer and 1-1/2 martinis, the other a glass of white wine. The Tesla owner was almost twice over the legal limit.

At the end of the article is a series of related document links: preliminary NTSB report, Harris County’s Constable’s report, fire marshall’s report, and autopsy reports on both men.

 

[Gadget-X]

I have some issues reading Bloomberg content. I refuse to pay $415 for a scrip. {:-(.

I did find a copy on Autobala.

M

 

[powertoold]

Both husbands had drank, one a beer and 1-1/2 martinis, the other a glass of white wine. The Tesla owner was almost twice over the legal limit.

At the end of the article is a series of related document links: preliminary NTSB report, Harris County’s Constable’s report, fire marshall’s report, and autopsy reports on both men.

So the supposed driver had twice the legal limit, and the autopsy was done who knows how long after the accident? Plus, the bodies were burned up? Geez, it sounds like they had a lot to drink.

Edit: ok, my assumptions aren't exactly correct. Here's a questionable article that describes alcohol metabolism after death:

Healthfully

Find your way to better health.

healthyliving.azcentral.com

If the deceased person was involved in an accident or caused an event that injured or killed others, experts must take care to either confirm or rule out intoxication as a factor. Because alcohol production in the body after death is chemically the same as that from drinking, blood-alcohol content alone cannot determine whether the person consumed alcohol before death. The alcohol level of the person's urine may not give an accurate before-death picture either. The vitreous humour sample usually proves more useful in estimating intoxication, but in the end, the medical examiner must take into account the body's weight, age, sex, fat content, time of death and other factors.

 

[Terminator857]

Alternate source for the bloomberg article:

Tesla crash victim's autopsy shows alcohol above legal limit

The owner’s alcohol level at the time of the crash adds complexity to a case that has riveted Tesla owners, industry executives and safety advocates alike.

www.autonews.com

 

[Terminator857]

Why is this thread hidden? I had to search for it to find it. Doesn't appear in new posts or in autopilot subforum.

 

[CyberGus]

... and now we learn the driver was drunk...

Victim of Tesla crash in Texas had alcohol level exceeding legal limit

One of the two victims of a fatal crash involving a Tesla car in Texas had a blood-alcohol level that exceeded the legal driving limit, according to an autopsy report.

www.reuters.com

Shame on news reporters.

The media publishes using the information they have. Law enforcement at the scene stated emphatically (and incorrectly) that "no one was driving", so that was reported. This was corrected in the days following.

Tesla bears a degree of responsibility for misconceptions and negative public opinion, since they refuse to participate in the marketing/PR game.

 

[powertoold]

Tesla bears a degree of responsibility for misconceptions and negative public opinion, since they refuse to participate in the marketing/PR game.

It's true, some degree, but we know the media picks on Tesla because Tesla doesn't pay for any advertising and their competitors do. Anyone who understands AP at all would understand the driver is still responsible and in control. The media implied that somehow the car just ran into a tree by itself and burst into flames, lol (playing into fears of electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles).

 

[AndreP]

I think some people in here are really jumping the gun with sloughing this onto blood alcohol content and what that may or may not absolve.

IMO this was likely an inebriated vehicle owner wanting to show off the self-driving technology, making a bad move possibly involving activating cruise control, and that resulting in the crash. Every crash involving this technology is always the driver's fault, they're all Level 2 systems at best, but I wouldn't be surprised if an organization like the NHTSA loosely ties this into marketing around the technology.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Why is this thread hidden? I had to search for it to find it. Doesn't appear in new posts or in autopilot subforum.

It's right there in the Autopilot and FSD forum:

 

[SMAlset]

I think some people in here are really jumping the gun with sloughing this onto blood alcohol content and what that may or may not absolve.

IMO this was likely an inebriated vehicle owner wanting to show off the self-driving technology, making a bad move possibly involving activating cruise control, and that resulting in the crash. Every crash involving this technology is always the driver's fault, they're all Level 2 systems at best, but I wouldn't be surprised if an organization like the NHTSA loosely ties this into marketing around the technology.

As the article states the toxicology complicates things. It has to throw into question the ability to operate the vehicle while DUI. In way of reminder: “The NTSB continues to collect data to analyze the crash dynamics, postmortem toxicology test results, seat belt use, occupant egress, and electric vehicle fires,” the regulator said in its May report. “All aspects of the crash remain under investigation as the NTSB determines the probable cause, with the intent of issuing safety recommendations to prevent similar crashes.”

For those curious but not wanting to read over the autopsy reports, and no medical background here, what I did come away with was that the owner (in back seat) had soot in his airways; very little was found in the passenger seat decedent and none was reported deeper down in his respiratory system. Levels of cyanide (from smoke) were similarly found in the blood stream of the two men, higher levels in the owner. Also the passenger seat decedent had pretty extensive fractures, arms, legs, rib cage; whereas the owner did not. (He had a skull fracture however). Both had thermal injuries but didn’t sound to me that the above were attributed to those. Suspect the front seat passenger died on impact or very shortly thereafter. He was also found with his head resting near some metal part of the dash. Both autopsies were done the day after the accident.

 

[Terminator857]

It's right there in the Autopilot and FSD forum:
View attachment 705200

My bad! Thank you!!!

 

[SMAlset]

Had this not been a Tesla, and a crashed, burned out car was discovered with a decedent in the front passenger seat and one in the rear driver’s side seat, the natural assumption everyone would have made was that the driver survived the crash and crawled to the rear to escape before perishing in the flames.

 

[AndreP]

Had this not been a Tesla, and a crashed, burned out car was discovered with a decedent in the front passenger seat and one in the rear driver’s side seat, the natural assumption everyone would have made was that the driver survived the crash and crawled to the rear to escape before perishing in the flames.

Do you know if it's common to find this after accidents? I'm guessing in most cases where accidents are serious enough to kill people, the victims are not conscious or mobile enough to do any moving between seats. The victim in the passenger seat was obviously not going anywhere with the injuries you mentioned, and it would seem highly unlikely the owner was in the driver's seat next to him, didn't sustain similar injuries, and was able to crawl into the back while attempting to evade the fire.

Does that not suggest the owner wasn't in the front seat when the accident occurred? Would the back seat not be an appropriate place for someone who has consumed enough alcohol to have twice the legal BAC?


gangzoom saying this investigation is wasted time and effort, well that feels like a very premature assessment. There would seem to be many unanswered questions worthy of investigation.

 

[Soul Surfer]

"Two men are dead after a Tesla traveling in Spring crashed into a tree and no one was driving the vehicle, officials say.

The crash happened at 11:25 p.m. in the Carlton Woods subdivision near The Woodlands. The car burst into flames after hitting a tree near 18 Hammock Dunes Place.

Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman told KPRC 2 that the investigation showed “no one was driving” the fully-electric 2019 Tesla when the accident happened. There was a person in the passenger seat of the front of the car and in the rear passenger seat of the car."

‘No one was driving the car’: 2 men dead after fiery Tesla crash near The Woodlands, officials say

Two men are dead after a Tesla ran into a tree in Spring.

www.click2houston.com

This is horrible and tragic.

Sounds like the men tried to pretend the car is driverless, like we see in the prank videos, but this time, with deadly consequences. It is also possible that they were driving manually, joy riding, went too fast and lost control. When the crash happened, the driver tried to crawl in the back seat to get out, but was unable to before the car caught fire, but it gave the impression the car was driverless when it was not.

We should wait for the final report. But it is terrible either way.

As a retired I.T. exec involved in more software development initiatives than I can ever recall, I have always said that this is just not ready for prime time. As long as the app relies on both visual, sensor and GPS cues to figure out its driving, the risks will remain high. Until the roads and other vehicles are all networked, I doubt we will ever achieve a higher confidence rate.

 

[mongo]

Do you know if it's common to find this after accidents? I'm guessing in most cases where accidents are serious enough to kill people, the victims are not conscious or mobile enough to do any moving between seats. The victim in the passenger seat was obviously not going anywhere with the injuries you mentioned, and it would seem highly unlikely the owner was in the front seat, didn't sustain similar injuries, and was able to crawl into the back while attempting to evade the fire.

Does that not suggest the owner wasn't in the front seat when the accident occurred?


gangzoom suggesting this investigation is wasted time and effort, well that feels like a very premature assessment. There would seem to be many unanswered questions worthy of investigation.

Video shows them getting into the front seats before the crash. Futher, the steering wheel was reportedly deformed which indicates someone in the driver's seat seat. Conversely, there is no visible damage to the driver's seat back frame to indicate it was impacted by a rear passenger.
Tesla’s Autopilot may not have been available at the time of the "driverless" Texas crash

Tesla claims someone was in the driver’s seat in deadly Texas crash