[updated with *] P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"

[krisg81]

Electric motors are not rated by the amount of input power applied, nor does the actual power produced in the installation directly equate to the horsepower rating of the motor. Should Tesla redefine the methodology of rating electric motors to fit your criterion (which appears to be to use input power applied in the application), the new numbers would seem to me to less reflective of the actual performance of the cars. Furthermore, it would require them to change the actual rating of the motor anytime they changed the software to apply more input power.

Tesla has changed their advertised power ratings many times thus far.

Do you have an explanation as to why other models are outputting more than advertised amounts of power, based on Inverter kW input ratings vs the P85D which puts out much less? It seems other models almost directly correlate their advertised power vs. actual logged inverter kW, with the only exception being the P85D. I don't see why the P85D is an exception to that rule. Their other models seem to reflect advertised power based on independent logging and it makes sense- but the P85D does not fall into the same logic and one must wonder how they came up with 691HP, plain and simple.

 

[trils0n]

As I understand it, electric motors are rated for their max capability. If they do not receive the current needed to reach that max performance, they have lesser performance, but aren't rated less. More current = more power. They can only put out max power given adequate input. The battery and inverter are what limit the motor's output. The motors are probably as claimed, but it appears the battery cannot supply power to achieve that performance on both motors simultaneously.

I thought early conversations about the difference between S85 and P85 concluded that the power was limited by battery and inverter. I'd assume the same for the P85D.

 

[Andyw2100]

Who is the top dog at Tesla I can email and send a link to this thread then? If anyone knows the name and email address I'll be happy to do it then..

I'm not sure who you should write to. I'll let someone else address that.

I'd just like to suggest that when you write you take some time to really present the facts as you see them, with as little hyperbole as possible. I know from reading this thread that this is something you feel very strongly about, and you have a right to. I don't think anyone is really questioning that, and I certainly am not. I'm merely suggesting to whatever extent possible you try to leave your strong feelings out of the letter, and present just the facts, along with the questions that you'd like answered. You're much more likely to have your letter taken seriously if you take that approach. And I'm sure you want that.

 

[brianman]

if I emailed Tesla about it ...

It's like voting. If you vote, your voice might be ignored (or drowned out). If you don't vote, you guarantee it will.

 

[ExhilR8]

I've called Tesla about the discrepancy between the advertised power and the actual inverter readout in my P85D, twice since December 2014. Each time I got the same exact canned answer: "A 'power upgrade is forthcoming.'" I asked when, and was told "We don't know" both times. My last call to them was about 5 weeks ago, and still no power upgrade.

Having been a highly satisfied Sig P85 owner for over 2 years, I believe I can trust Tesla to deliver on their original power promises for my P85D, eventually, so I'm not really torqued about it, so to speak. Just looking forward to more news and software upgrades as I continue to enjoy the heck out of my car in the meantime.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Each time I got the same exact canned answer: "A 'power upgrade is forthcoming.'"

That's disappointing, but at least it sounds like an upgrade is still coming, and doesn't require a new battery.

 

[krisg81]

I've called Tesla about the discrepancy between the advertised power and the actual inverter readout in my P85D, twice since December 2014. Each time I got the same exact canned answer: "A 'power upgrade is forthcoming.'" I asked when, and was told "We don't know" both times. My last call to them was about 5 weeks ago, and still no power upgrade.

Having been a highly satisfied Sig P85 owner for over 2 years, I believe I can trust Tesla to deliver on their original power promises for my P85D, eventually, so I'm not really torqued about it, so to speak. Just looking forward to more news and software upgrades as I continue to enjoy the heck out of my car in the meantime.

very interesting, and thank you for this. I myself hope the hardware is fully capable of the advertised 691HP and hope it can be unlocked with a simple OTA update. If the car performs this well with 560HP, imagine how amazing it will be with 691!

 

[EarlyAdopter]

That's disappointing, but at least it sounds like an upgrade is still coming, and doesn't require a new battery.

This is how I view things. Tesla has said more is coming for the P85D through a software update. We might see it as a warmup act for the 4/30 product reveal, or not if it's not ready.

So far, Tesla has made good on all of their other promises for performance upgrades for the P85D (and 85D, too), so I have faith they'll deliver on this one for the P85D, too... when it's ready.

 

[Matias]

Who is the top dog at Tesla I can email and send a link to this thread then? If anyone knows the name and email address I'll be happy to do it then..

I would mail him.

JB Straubel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess everyone in Tesla has the same email structure.

 

[Andyw2100]

I would mail him.

JB Straubel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess everyone in Tesla has the same email structure.

I don't believe JB Straubel deals very much with customer inquiries. I could be wrong.

When I suggested that someone other than me should make a recommendation, what I meant was that it should come from someone who knew who a top person in Tesla was, who would ordinarily deal with this type of issue and who also dealt with customers. Obviously there's always Jerome Guillen. Everyone writes to Jerome about everything, and he is always very responsive. I just thought krisg81 might be looking for a recommendation other than Jerome. If there are none, I'd recommend Jerome, who we know does respond to these kind of questions, over JB Straubel, who we have no reason to believe does.

 

[sorka]

The 371KW numbers from the REST api are suspect and are probably not in KW units as the KW meter clearly showed 320 on the those. I have a P85+ loaner today and it too says exactly 320KW during maximum acceleration. This corresponds to 429 hp which is pretty much the speced power.

The P85D's meter, now showing a hair more with the last update (.168) than it did before is clearly reading closer to 440K. The difference in passing power between my PD and P+ loaner is large...quite large.

That said the PD is not putting out the claimed hp.

Prior to the update, the needle would only cover the right side of the 0 in 480, but now it's actually on the left side of the 0.

- - - Updated - - -

Electric motors are not rated by the amount of input power applied, nor does the actual power produced in the installation directly equate to the horsepower rating of the motor. Should Tesla redefine the methodology of rating electric motors to fit your criterion (which appears to be to use input power applied in the application), the new numbers would seem to me to less reflective of the actual performance of the cars. Furthermore, it would require them to change the actual rating of the motor anytime they changed the software to apply more input power.

Nope, this is simple physics. 1 KW = 1.341 hp. Assuming 100% inverter and motor efficiency, 410 KW cannot be more than 550 HP...period. It can certainly be less because of inverter and motor losses, but it cannot be more. Period. Physics. End of story.

 

[thegruf]

I've called Tesla about the discrepancy between the advertised power and the actual inverter readout in my P85D, twice since December 2014. Each time I got the same exact canned answer: "A 'power upgrade is forthcoming.'" I asked when, and was told "We don't know" both times. My last call to them was about 5 weeks ago, and still no power upgrade.

Having been a highly satisfied Sig P85 owner for over 2 years, I believe I can trust Tesla to deliver on their original power promises for my P85D, eventually, so I'm not really torqued about it, so to speak. Just looking forward to more news and software upgrades as I continue to enjoy the heck out of my car in the meantime.

ExhilR8 - thanks for the contribution
As a suggestion how about another call ... was 6.2 the power upgrade? ... or is it still coming?

 

[brianman]

View attachment 78867

Double-check the time circuits.

- - - Updated - - -

ExhilR8 - thanks for the contribution
As a suggestion how about another call ... was 6.2 the power upgrade? ... or is it still coming?

If you make that call, please be specific on which 6.2 you mean.

For example, "6.2 will include the 155mph unlock" and "6.2 did not include the 155mph unlock" and "6.2 did include the 155mph unlock" have all be proven to be correct. Specificity matters.

 

[Stoneymonster]

The 371KW numbers from the REST api are suspect and are probably not in KW units as the KW meter clearly showed 320 on the those

Possible, but I've never seen that suggested before. What makes you trust the logarithmic and difficult to read gauge more? I think the best we can say is that we don't know which is more accurate. They may be tapping at different places in the power train.

 

[sorka]

Possible, but I've never seen that suggested before. What makes you trust the logarithmic and difficult to read gauge more? I think the best we can say is that we don't know which is more accurate. They may be tapping at different places in the power train.

Because the REST numbers pulled for the P85 correspond to much more horsepower than P85s dyno on a Dynojet of which there are plenty.

 

[thegruf]

is not the dyno AWHP, the REST figures will be motor or even inverter input?

 

[sorka]

Yes, but even after factoring inverter and drivetrain losses, the posted REST numbers correspond to closer to 500 hp on the P+ which it clearly isn't.

 

[gordo]

View attachment 78867

Prior to the update, the needle would only cover the right side of the 0 in 480, but now it's actually on the left side of the 0.

Yup, I can corroborate that it does appear to make a bit more peak power now. Here I am pegging it with 6.2 (124) back on Apr 4th:

This is good news. It means Tesla Engineers are busy tweaking away, ensuring reliability as they grow more comfortable with the car's performance potential. It would be nice if they'd simply come out and say so publicly since the car has been shipping for several months now, but I'll reserve my judgment for the time being.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Comparing those two pictures it looks to me like the only thing that changed was the font size and position of the 480 - looks like the power meter is still in about the same place between the lines. Notice on the bottom picture the 0 of 480 is directly under the tick mark and in the top picture the 8 of 480 is directly under the tick mark.

Mike

 

[ExhilR8]

ExhilR8 - thanks for the contribution
As a suggestion how about another call ... was 6.2 the power upgrade? ... or is it still coming?

I'll call them again if I don't see 515kW after the next software update following April 30th. Tesla has been very good to me, for example in early 2013 after I thoroughly flogged my Sig P85 at the racetrack, and the battery was bricked from "battery contacts WELDED open," they simply gave me a new battery, free of charge, no hassle, not even a suggestion that I go easy at the track. I figure the least I can do is be patient while they do whatever they need to do behind the scenes.

But I can say for sure that my second download of "6.2" was definitely not THE power upgrade, even though the throttle response subjectively feels a little peppier, and there seems to be a little more oomph at 50mph. Still, the inverter gauge never reaches 480, therefore no 691hp.

And yes, it will be a hoot when the P85D can do 0-60 in under 2.8 seconds. That's when all the Ferrari, McLaren, and even Porsche owners will need an underwear change. I'm looking forward to that. :biggrin: