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[updated with *] P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"
- Thread starter krisg81
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Really good question. If that start was truly typical of P85D starts there one wonders if there's something different about the software over there. I wasn't paying too much attention to the 3.6 seconds because I didn't know if it was with or without the 1 ft rollout. All I know is that launch was lousy compared to a typical P85D launch without traction control.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I could be mistaken, but I think about half of the difference between their 4.0 and the 3.1 is the 1-foot rollout, and the other half is that they are recording 0-100 km/h, not 0-60 mph. I haven't been following that thread as closely as others, but I think those two things account for almost all of the discrepancy.
The most telling thing in the video is that the said "there was a hesitation off the line...almost as though the electric motors took a deep breath".
A normal P85D launch not only doesn't have any hesitation but its' far more instantaneous than any ICE.
The only thing that would cause hesitation like that is either traction control or pressing the brake i.e. not releasing the brake pedal all the way when you're pressing the accelerator. I suspect one of these two things the case. I'm shocked they didn't do more than one test even if it all seemed to go perfectly the first time.
That said, if the 0-60 time doesn't include the 1 ft rollout, then it's only 0.1 seconds off. If it does include the 1ft rollout, then it's off by 0.5 seconds.
A normal P85D launch not only doesn't have any hesitation but its' far more instantaneous than any ICE.
The only thing that would cause hesitation like that is either traction control or pressing the brake i.e. not releasing the brake pedal all the way when you're pressing the accelerator. I suspect one of these two things the case. I'm shocked they didn't do more than one test even if it all seemed to go perfectly the first time.
That said, if the 0-60 time doesn't include the 1 ft rollout, then it's only 0.1 seconds off. If it does include the 1ft rollout, then it's off by 0.5 seconds.
I believe it was without the 1 ft rollout (or at least they didn't mention it and it's not a US publication so wouldn't be the norm over there). Either way the Porsche was tested with the same method. Definitely didn't understand what they were doing. There is zero lag or pause in the Model S, no electric motor needs to 'take a deep breath' as they said prior to launch.
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Good point. They argument is Tesla says 3.3 seconds to 100 kmh (we know that includes a 1 foot rollout which they don't agree with) but they are getting closer to 4 seconds.
Actually in that video the problem is that they launched the P85D with both pedals pressed initially... They were idiots. There was a slight 'hesitation' as they say.
I listed that above as one of the two ways you would get such a hesitation. But I'm curious, you're stating it as fact. How did you figure this out?
It can downshift 1 gear in 100ms, if the computer thinks you were about to downshift and queued up that gear on the other shaft. What about shifting 2 gears? Let's say 5th to 3rd? Now you're on the same shaft, and shift time is relatively enormous.
Like I said, ICE technology sucks.
Btw, back of the envelope math (wrt to rollout speed & time):
1ft=0.305m
a=acceleration=1.1g *9.81 = 10.791 m/s^2 (you can play around with the initial g force, but 1.1 is the maximum)
d=0.5*a*t^2
t= sqrt(2d/a)
t= sqrt(2*0.305/10.791) = 0.238s -> time to reach 1ft (aka time to subtract for 1ft rollout)
v= speed @ 1ft = a*t = (1.1g *9.81) * 0.238 = 2.568 m/s -> 5.74mph
5.74mph is the maximum speed achievable @ 1ft. I don't know how your getting 7mph exactly, but I guess it's close enough.
(if you use a lower g, say 0.5, the time is ~0.35s and speed is 3.84mph)
/endmath
About the video:
Think about this, soon enough Motortrend will get their hand on a P90DL... You better believe that they will get the 2.8 and 10.9 in quarter mile (all with rollout and with a margin of +/- 0.1s), otherwise Tesla is in a world of hurt LOL. That's why I'm skeptical that the power output we are seeing is the max... we will find out soon enough.
If anyone is really that dissatisfied with their P85D pm me your specs. I was trying to decide between an 90D and P90DL, but I'll thankfully take P85D with almost a year of depreciation and get the ludicrous package myself.
But I don't think anyone will. 5k to own basically the quickest car on the road other than some freakshow barely streetable Subaru or Audi with 15-30k upgrades in the drivetrain.... hmmmm
But I don't think anyone will. 5k to own basically the quickest car on the road other than some freakshow barely streetable Subaru or Audi with 15-30k upgrades in the drivetrain.... hmmmm
Didn't see your post. It isn't a fact per se, but good assumption given the abnormal launch and the propensity of British car reviewers to use 'brake torquing' when it isn't necessary... just like steve sutcliffe of Autocar did recently... Tesla Model S P85D vs Audi RS7 vs Alpina XD3 track battle - YouTube
w/e
A PDK can downshift from 7th to 2nd in 40 ms. Faster than you can blink an eye. You've obviously never driven anything like it. I wasn't trying to point out the fastest example before because the average example these days is still fast enough that a car like an RS7 is still going to to beat the P85D in a roll-on contest even if the RS7 is in top gear and in full auto mode.
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Used is usually the best financial move for sure. Don't see any on the CPO site. Auto trader has *one* selling for $10K less than it was new, but then you're losing your $10K incentives unless MA gives the $2500 for a used car then you'd only lose the $7500.
But if you can find one and bargain it down to $25K below sticker, to account for the loss of the $10K incentive, then do that.
An inventory car can sometimes be a great deal but I discounted that because a P85D with 5K miles on it will have had 5000 insane mode launches during test drives and I just didn't want to go there with that.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's the same publication actually for both videos. As for evidence, skip to 2:00 in the Panamera video. After he gave thumbs up, you can see him pitch forward and then back for a split second. That means he put his foot on the brake immediately before he launched (or he let loose on brake pressure and then reapplied). While that does not directly mean brake torquing, one explanation can be brake torquing.
That was one of the first things I tried when testing back in January 2015 - you can't do that, the car will just beeep at you and tell you that you have both pedels pushed down. Go out and try, so they definitely did not do that.
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its getting really old this 'if you are not happy with the car sell it'. I don't swap my wife out just because we disagree, she is still the hottest women I know!
The P85D is by far one of the best cars I have owned, but it is certainly not perfect, however Tesla has the knowledge and technology to make a wrong right, which isn't to much to ask for. I don't what anything for free, but I want what I paid for. And when buying the baddest of the baddest in the line up, then it is the hp figure and the 0-60 times that I am looking at or else I would have saved me $20k and just gotten the 'quick enough' 85D. There is no question that P85D buyers were right to believe that Teslas claims about HP and 0-60 were true, because they have always be true on all their other cars. And why it may be difficult to prove or win a case based on the P85D numbers alone, the different sales and marketing strategy for the car line up will just kill Tesla if it came to court.
I do not understand why that is so hard to understand for people in here
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you brake after acceleration, power is cut (post 6.2 update, car in test may not have been updated yet though). However if you brake first and apply the accelerator, torque is still applied from that motor (this is for hill-holding purposes). So "brake torquing" is definitely still possible with the car.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...still-inconsistent-a-safety-plea-to-elon-musk
http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/two-pedals-are-pressed-same-time-cutting-engine-power-0
Hi Andyw2100, thanks for your refrence to "the Danes". Just to re-state what we have said all the time : 0-100 km/h is advertised with 3,3 s. Our best time is 3,8 s.
Br
Torben_E
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
FWIW just test drove a P85D at Tesla Drammen. The Product specialist didn't budge one inch: he said the P85D has in excess of 691 hp (closer to 700) as a car (not just the motors). He also claimed the L upgrade will add another 70-80 hp.
Here's how Tesla's internal iPad page, where you acknowledge the TOC for test drives, looks in Noway:
Here's how Tesla's internal iPad page, where you acknowledge the TOC for test drives, looks in Noway:
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