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Upgraded to FSD, now what?

john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
847
571
Florida
Musk has been promising cross-country self driving "by end of 2017" back in 2016, and has repeated "by end of next year" a couple more years he missed the dates on.

Teslas official docs have never promised a time.


At which point (if it's the admission bit) yes I'd expect there to be refunds for the pre-3/19 folks (or lawsuits, as I said).

Two things. First, many people bought FSD regardless of Musk's failed promises, so they can't claim they were unaware Tesla wasn't going to deliver at the 'promised' time. Secondly, there were never any deadlines set officially in writing for FSD.
And a competitor beating Tesla to the punch (Waymo is already ahead technically) is meaningless for reason number two.

A lawsuit? Possibly, but I'd expect it to go nowhere. Money from Tesla? Hell would sooner freeze over. How is battery-gate doing? What about charge-gate, panel gap-gate and paint-gate?
 

john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
847
571
Florida
My real fear is that paying the money now ($4k) will not cover future HW upgrades to get me to FSD, should HW 4.0 or 5.0 be required..

Even though I'm more optimistic than others on here about the future of FSD on the current hardware, this is a legitimate concern. One can only hope we get grandfathered into any possible hardware upgrades going forward.
 
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notrhj

Member
Apr 17, 2019
264
194
NYC
Don’t know about you but here is a Tesla video shown to press and investors saying thus is FSD

if I don’t get this hands off the wheel experience a class action is going to sue the pancake batter out of them

FYI
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,943
16,505
NC
Two things. First, many people bought FSD regardless of Musk's failed promises, so they can't claim they were unaware Tesla wasn't going to deliver at the 'promised' time. Secondly, there were never any deadlines set officially in writing for FSD.

And I never said otherwise for either thing.

I said that if tesla admits they can't do the pre 3/19 FSD promise then you'd have the options I listed.

Which- eventually- they will be forced to do....especially as other car makers start offering genuinely worth a crap L2 systems.

Right now Tesla appears way ahead (and they are).

If they fail to stay that way they'll have to address that.


And a competitor beating Tesla to the punch (Waymo is already ahead technically) is meaningless for reason number two.

Again- no.

0 people will buy FSD going forward if suddenly Kia offers the same stuff standard.

Tesla will have to explain why they've been promising better than L2 for 10 years at that point and not delivered it.

Right now they can keep saying "We're nearly there!" because they're still ahead of everyone.

Waymo isn't- because

A) Waymo only lets the public ride in their cars in one little suburb of arizona, heavily mapped and with perfect weather- not the other 99% of the country where autopilot works.

B) You can't buy a car from Waymo



A lawsuit? Possibly, but I'd expect it to go nowhere. Money from Tesla? Hell would sooner freeze over. How is battery-gate doing? What about charge-gate, panel gap-gate and paint-gate?


Tesla didn't promise "caliper perfect panels" to anybody.

I'm not even aware of any lawsuit over that... (or paint, or anything else you mention)


Tesla DID have to give partial EAP refunds for not meeting their actual promises on a specific, as-sold, feature though. Thanks to a lawsuit.






Don’t know about you but here is a Tesla video shown to press and investors saying thus is FSD

if I don’t get this hands off the wheel experience a class action is going to sue the pancake batter out of them

FYI


That video is "what we are working on getting reliable and hope to be able to give people one day, speculatively"

That's why it was for investors. It's a forward looking statement not a promise.



The pic I posted is "the thing you actually bought"

Different things- legally.
 

notrhj

Member
Apr 17, 2019
264
194
NYC
And I never said otherwise for either thing.

I said that if tesla admits they can't do the pre 3/19 FSD promise then you'd have the options I listed.

Which- eventually- they will be forced to do....especially as other car makers start offering genuinely worth a crap L2 systems.

Right now Tesla appears way ahead (and they are).

If they fail to stay that way they'll have to address that.




Again- no.

0 people will buy FSD going forward if suddenly Kia offers the same stuff standard.

Tesla will have to explain why they've been promising better than L2 for 10 years at that point and not delivered it.

Right now they can keep saying "We're nearly there!" because they're still ahead of everyone.

Waymo isn't- because

A) Waymo only lets the public ride in their cars in one little suburb of arizona, heavily mapped and with perfect weather- not the other 99% of the country where autopilot works.

B) You can't buy a car from Waymo






Tesla didn't promise "caliper perfect panels" to anybody.

I'm not even aware of any lawsuit over that... (or paint, or anything else you mention)


Tesla DID have to give partial EAP refunds for not meeting their actual promises on a specific, as-sold, feature though. Thanks to a lawsuit.









That video is "what we are working on getting reliable and hope to be able to give people one day, speculatively"

That's why it was for investors. It's a forward looking statement not a promise.



The pic I posted is "the thing you actually bought"

Different things- legally.

I’m an investor
This was Billed and labeled and demoed as “FSD” coming soon to a car near you

hell they gave us rides

how did you ever pass the bar
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,943
16,505
NC
I’m an investor
This was Billed and labeled and demoed as “FSD” coming soon to a car near you

hell they gave us rides

how did you ever pass the bar

Uh...what?

That's called a forward looking statement. It wasn't something they were selling customers TODAY.

Obviously.

It was something they HOPED they'd be delivering in the future.

Go back and look at the video and transcripts to see how it's phrased-


"We expect to be..."

"probably by..."


That'd be actionable if it turned out they werent' even TRYING to do those things- but otherwise "We said we'd try- we DID try- and we failed" is a totally legit excuse to not deliver to investors.


That's entirely different from a product directly sold at retail to customers- which is what the FSD folks have been paying actual cash for is.


Post 3/19 buyers are promised a specific list of features, at no better than level 2 as described in the product feature list AT TIME OF PURCHASE.

That's all those folks are owed.


it's the 3/19 buyers who were genuinely promised a lot more at time/point of sale and would have a cause for action if it Tesla admitted it was undelvierable.
 
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john5520

Member
Mar 3, 2020
847
571
Florida
And I never said otherwise for either thing.

I said that if tesla admits they can't do the pre 3/19 FSD promise then you'd have the options I listed.

Which- eventually- they will be forced to do....especially as other car makers start offering genuinely worth a crap L2 systems.

Right now Tesla appears way ahead (and they are).

If they fail to stay that way they'll have to address that.

I don't see them ever admitting any thing of the sort. And has been pointed out many times already, a much shorter version of the same 'promise' is currently on their website in the same location. I can post it again if you'd like?
Again- no.

0 people will buy FSD going forward if suddenly Kia offers the same stuff standard.
Tesla will have to explain why they've been promising better than L2 for 10 years at that point and not delivered it.

Telsa does not have to explain anything. Anyone that wants the same stuff now can sell their Tesla and go buy a Kia.
But realistically, Tesla will progress beyond their current state. They are moving along.
Right now they can keep saying "We're nearly there!" because they're still ahead of everyone.

And anyone that does a little research would know they're not:

Journey – Waymo

Tesla DID have to give partial EAP refunds for not meeting their actual promises on a specific, as-sold, feature though. Thanks to a lawsuit.

Read it. They made the mistake of promising the feature(s) by a certain date (December 2016 if I remembered correctly). That was their undoing. Which more than likely explains why they don't do that anymore.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,943
16,505
NC
Telsa does not have to explain anything. Anyone that wants the same stuff now can sell their Tesla and go buy a Kia.
But realistically, Tesla will progress beyond their current state. They are moving along.

I mean- they can't though- because "now" the Kia stuff is garbage.

When that changes, if Tesla hasn't moved past L2, they're going to have to explain how everyone else has caught up and they haven't advanced. (if that turns out to be the case... if it's not, and they deliver FSD, there's obviously no issue)


And anyone that does a little research would know they're not:

Journey – Waymo

Yeah- wrong again.

They offer "driverless" rides... in cars they own...in one little suburb of one specific town in Arizona... to a tiny group of beta customers.

That's it.

And, more importantly, I can't buy a Waymo.


Perhaps you missed we were discussing things people can actually buy TODAY?

In that regard, Tesla is ahead of everyone here.

Caddy is the closest- and only works on a tiny fraction of the roads Teslas system does, and doesn't do half as much... just on the roads it DOES work, for the specific functions it does, it's quite good.



Read it. They made the mistake of promising the feature(s) by a certain date (December 2016 if I remembered correctly). That was their undoing. Which more than likely explains why they don't do that anymore.

As I say, as long as they're ahead of anything else you can buy- that's probably going to hold up... "See? we're still working on it, and better than anything else you can buy!"

If that's ever not true- you can expect class actions- including a ton of specific, dated, statements from the CEO of the company coming into testimony showing years and years of unfulfilled promises.... (or in the case of some promises- known false ones... they've already been caught lying twice about every car having "all the HW" it needs for FSD after all... both 2.0 and 2.5 were lies when they claimed it about them)

But by narrowing the specific promises on the purchase page (rather than an unconnected marketing page) they greatly limit the # of folks they'll have to settle with some at least partial refund like they did the EAP people.
 

TomB985

Member
Apr 15, 2019
446
524
Isanti, MN
We can debate this endlessly, but it’s all meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I think we all expect Tesla to move as fast with the technology as possible, and we will end up with a product better than what we have today.

Yeah- wrong again.

Now seriously...are you able to rebut an opinion without trying to start a fight? You’re consistently one of the most contentious folks on this forum, and it doesn’t help anyone.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,943
16,505
NC
We can debate this endlessly, but it’s all meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I think we all expect Tesla to move as fast with the technology as possible, and we will end up with a product better than what we have today.

I agree they'll keep trying- and I think something like L3 on highways is certainly possible with current HW... L5? Not so much.


Now seriously...are you able to rebut an opinion without trying to start a fight? You’re consistently one of the most contentious folks on this forum, and it doesn’t help anyone.

I guess you missed the quote to which I was replying had an obvious personal insult in it from the guy I was replying to?

"anyone that does a little research would know "

So- bad enough that- but then he ends up being incorrect about the thing he's trying to "correct" me on.

Weird you then put all the blame on ME for that.
 

TLLMRRJ

Active Member
Dec 19, 2019
1,844
1,819
Houston
I didn't pass the Bar, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, so I can tell you without any uncertainty that if you paid for FSD on your Model 3, you flushed that money down the toilet.
 
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notrhj

Member
Apr 17, 2019
264
194
NYC
I didn't pass the Bar, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, so I can tell you without any uncertainty that if you paid for FSD on your Model 3, you flushed that money down the toilet.

Thanks for sharing your travel preferences and bathroom habits
 
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daver6640

Member
Feb 21, 2018
394
235
Fresno
Update: Thanks to the advice from this forum I used my Tesla app to set-up my appointment for today. I just picked up my M3 from Tesla service and I now have HW3! It took a few miles (10-15) for my autopilot cameras to fully calibrate. I am now downloading some required maps at home on WiFi. Tesla service also replaced my charger port pins or something like that.

Fresno Tesla service stated that they receive a limited supply of HW3 parts from time to time and they go quickly.

Thanks and good luck to all!

David
 
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suttonlr

Member
Dec 25, 2016
44
55
Austin, TX
Longtime Tesla owner S/3...

I’ve seen all the missed deadlines and promises over the years but it’s still the most capable self driving (driver assisted) car I’ve ever experienced and that’s why I keep buying them and telling my friends to do the same.

My best guess from years of Tesla experiences...

1. There will be a HW3.5-4 within 1-2 years. There is always an update in the pipeline (your 3 year old iPhone is always slow). You will not get this probably without buying a new car.
2. Tesla is sitting on something like $500m in unrealized income and can cash that in when FSD is “feature complete” and that’s why they changed the definitions, to cash that check.
3. Tesla will continue to innovate and hopefully stay ahead of the competition. They for sure had a huge lead. You will have to pay more for this in the future.
4. You have almost seen all features you will ever see with current hardware (3). It will turn at stop lights one day if it detects your hand on the wheel. But don’t expect much more in your current car...
5. There will be lawsuits, people will get a few bucks back but not much.
 

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