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US Oil & Subsidies

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by hcsharp, May 1, 2012.

  1. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

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    You're obviously not very familiar with tax code. Or if you are, you're misrepresenting it. Many of the fossil fuel industry tax breaks do not necessarily mention oil or gas or coal but the code is written in such a way that those are generally the only companies that can take advantage of it. Congress has to write the bills to make them look generic or it reflects badly after some of the most profitable companies in the world recently helped them win a recent election.
     
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  2. rays427

    rays427 Member

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    Here is a Forbes article on the Oil Company Tax Subsidies. Debunking Myths About Federal Oil & Gas Subsidies

    As I said most tax breaks that are enjoyed by oil companies are similar to what other companies get. In addition to income taxes there are the Excise taxes on gasoline and diesel. The average State Excise tax is $.266 per gallon and the Federal is $.184 on gasoline for a total of $.45 per gallon. For diesel it's $.273 state and $.244 federal for a total of $.517. The US uses about 140 billion gallons of gasoline and 35 billion gallons of diesel per year. So the total excise tax is around $81 billion. Now in addition to this some states charge sales tax and in California there is a 11-13 cents carbon tax per gallon. Now this in addition to the federal and state income and property taxes the oil companies pay. Looking at it in a different way the current average US gasoline price is about $2.30/gallon. So just the excise tax is 19.6% of the cost of gasoline.
     
  3. darrelld

    darrelld Member

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  4. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    use google, find for yourself, read what you prefer
     
  5. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    loan is not a subsidy - but you knew that
     
  6. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    • Disagree x 1
  7. darrelld

    darrelld Member

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    IMG_3190.jpeg Why oil cartels don't like Tesla, shorts by association are in the same camp.
     
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  8. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    Back in May, 2007 former CIA Chief James Woolsey made the exact same argument (Almost...). Unfortunately though, at that time, he had to drive a second gen. Prius...

    Again: Note that the date of that source is May, 2007!...
     
  9. rays427

    rays427 Member

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    The federal tax break for the 200,000 Teslas sold in the US at $7,500 per car is worth $1.5 billion. There are additional state tax breaks as well so just the tax breaks on Teslas is almost $2 billion. Including all plug in cars it's probably close to $6 billion. You also have several loans to companies that went out of business. So it's not just loans.

    By the way although I think most subsidies that oil companies get are basically the same as other industries get I do agree that you could count a lot of our military costs as a way to keep oil costs low.
     
  10. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #50 Brando, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    I was referring to the $465 million dollar loan Tesla got. details see
    Loan program that helped Tesla at critical time; Trump wants to cut it.
    yes, like many/most government programs corruption always seems to find a way. In this particular case I think Tesla was one of the very few that this loan benefitted citizens/environment/Tesla/workers. Tesla paid back with interest and early too. Article is worth a quick read.

    I see military expenses used as the reasons US doesn't have reasonable healthcare nor college education system. Started in Afghanistan in 1979 with CIA training Osama bin Laden to fight Russians, The rest is history you may or may not know and after 40 years what do we have to show for it all? And we can't even guess how many billions we spent -one soldier easily costs $ 1 million per year all in. Diesel fuel delivered by helicopter and on and on. all too depressing, I really don't care to continue on this depressing topic.

    good luck,
    take care of you family and friends - they may need your help and you may need theirs one day.

    PS- ALL CAR companies get the same $7,500 tax credit for BEV - yes the Bolt too. That is the real reason that tax credit won't go away. interesting and even a better tax scam - for GM Hummer
    Section 179 Deduction for Trucks / Vehicles | Section179.Org
     
  11. rays427

    rays427 Member

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    If you want to add up what is spent by our government on climate change you also need to include what is spent on climate change research. Since 1993 well over $100 billion has been spent on climate change research. Per the GAO It started out at 2.5 billion in 1993 and increased to $13 billion last year. Unfortunately researchers have a bias to keep the money coming by forecast a disaster. If they were to say there is not a major problem what do you think would happen to the funding?
     
  12. lklundin

    lklundin Active Member

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    With deliveries for 18H2 projected at about 50k S/X + 120k M3, subsidies may increase by an additional $1.2 billion (assuming little export).
    Depending on exports during 2019, 18H2 + 2019 may increase the benefit of the federal tax credit up to about $2 billion, on top of the $1.5 billion already subsidized.
    So Tesla is clearly doing its part to implement the federal government's EV subsidy.
     
  13. Lozza12

    Lozza12 Member

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    So an average of $4 billion per year spent on CC research then? That’s chump change my friend. Compared with the size of the oil industry and taxes avoided by corporates in general, those pesky college researchers are hardly the new breed of parasite on the Federal Government.

    What’s baffling is how you see some kind of gravy train of college professors earning some $100k+ per year, but can’t see the tens of trillions already invested in fossil fuels as somehow more influential and lucrative. Madness really!
     
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  14. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #54 Brando, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
    Only for those owner of business - nicknamed the HUMMER tax credit (not that :eek:- the vehicle)
    - Your Model X may qualify !

    Here’s How Section 179 works:
    In years past, when your business bought qualifying equipment, it typically wrote it off a little at a time through depreciation. In other words, if your company spends $50,000 on a machine, it gets to write off (say) $10,000 a year for five years (these numbers are only meant to give you an example).
    Now, while it’s true that this is better than no write-off at all, most business owners would really prefer to write off the entire equipment purchase price for the year they buy it.
    And that’s exactly what Section 179 does – it allows your business to write off the entire purchase price of qualifying equipment for the current tax year.

    This has made a big difference for many companies (and the economy in general.) Businesses have used Section 179
    to purchase needed equipment right now, instead of waiting. For most small businesses, the entire cost of qualifying equipment can be written-off on the 2018 tax return (up to $1,000,000).

    Brando's thoughts:eek:_O
    I suggest you start with a internet search, do some reading, take notes, copy relevant findings, talk it over with your accountant - wonder if this Section 179 is in Turbo Tax?? any one know?

    I know, our ruling elites brag about avoiding taxes - especially Trump(ette). So do all the other "non income earnings" people.
    You know, The ones asking to deduct "inflation" from their capital gains before paying 15% or less (Romney got it down to about 11%
    apparently) IF you look at your wage stub about 14% (you pay half and your employer matches) which is what pays for your entitlements - you know, the Social Security and Medicare you are entitled to since you paid for it. AND then you add on income taxes. Yes, only people who actually work for a wage or hourly pay pay income taxes, the rest are "non income earnings". fair enough?? not in my humble opinion - but who the hell am i.

    But God forbid we collect sales tax on gasoline. Maybe we could order from Amazon? Oh, I forgot, now even they collect sales tax, right? (another thought, if you get off the grid - don't tell anyone.)
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    #55 SageBrush, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
    I'm skeptical.

    Maybe if you included all the government funding of Earth and Atmospheric Science. I'd be amused to see how much money the fossil fuel interests pour into Universities. And I have some clue how much money the prior Repuke governments poured into Hydrogen research but lo and behold the overwhelming opinion about the "Hydrogen Economy" is quite negative.

    Between tenure, peer review and intellectual honesty, academia is a lot more honest than ANY other group. Rmays has obviously never been close to academia and does not have a clue.
     
  16. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    Always good to have some proof. But where are/were academics
    vaccine insanity Birth-18 Years Immunization Schedule | CDC
    current censorship - net neutraility
    endless wars - military budgets - atomic bomb budgets - atomic reactor dangers
    cost of education - that is unforgivable, right?
    Prison Industrial Complex

    I can't think of anything these academics have done that is positive.

    OK I shouldn't try to blame them for everything going wrong. So I'm clueless.
    How about cluing me in. Name a few things they have had a positive influence on??

    PS - the few academics that seem to try are soon removed - the rest seem corrupted, IMHO.
    Corporations get by with most anything and the academics seem to fail us mostly and our rights keep disappearing.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    I didn't wish to imply in any way that science academics are a great political force. Quite the opposite.
    And while intellectual dishonesty certainly happens, you should notice that it is uncommon in the West and almost always ferreted out from within.

    There is too much peer review and intellectual competition to be otherwise.
     
  18. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #58 Brando, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
    Sadly, I don't see them ferret out anything that is important. Well, and I do see how corporations try to make sure they don't get out the word. tobacco and climate probably being the most well known.
    "Merchants of Doubt" cover those two topic in fine detail.
    Like I said, i sadly can't point to some topic where they did actually help. Any suggestions?? just one
    Other wise I tend to get depressed... first world problem of a selfish man, I know.
    This climate thing may have been the last straw. Bee population way down on this farm. And the skies always seem ... silvery/polluted .. blue skies only about once a month anymore.
     
  19. rays427

    rays427 Member

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    At $13 billion spent on research in 2017 and your $100K per professor you are talking about funding that's 130,000 professors. I don't see that as chump change. The tens of trillions invested in fossil fuels is why we have the life style we enjoy today. What do you actually think the world would be like today if we never had fossil fuels?
     
  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Do you REALLY think there are 130,000 Profs researching AGW in the US ? Really ?

    There are 2,500 universities in the USA but I doubt more than 1/10 have active Earth Science research programs. I'll guess the number of active Profs in the field is closer to 130.
    That is the thing about denialism: it requires one to suspend common sense and the most basic reasoning.
     
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