You have to press the small button in the controller repeatedly. It does work but it is a hit or miss for my 7 year old. But most of the time he successfully manages to play.
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V11 - what’s your verdict?
- Thread starter pdk42
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But it's not a simple rain sensor on other cars, it's a sensor and a manual control by the steering wheel that you use to constantly fiddle with the sensitivity, because the rain sensors are kinda rubbish without human intervention.
Tesla are building the car to be capable of driving autonomously, that can't rely on a human to fiddle with a sensitivity control, so they would need to build a mechanism to automatically do that. Say you did that, the question would be what's the point in having the sensor if we already have an AI that's determining what's the right amount of wiper activation.
AutomaticMan
Member
Right. I actually agree, this is what is maddening about this thread... I mean, I'm buying a Tesla because I think it has the best experience
But @PITA said that the alternative to Tesla's over-the-air software updates on other cars is that you have to take them to a dealer for them to update the software. This is just factually not true, because I have an ID.3 (for another few hours at least, it's going this evening!) that updates itself over-the-air using LTE.But I'm saying that in order to say that other EV makers offer most of the things in PITA's list to some extent. Not that they offer them as well as Tesla does. That, in my opinion, they don't offer them as well as Tesla does is why I'm buying a Tesla. The ID.3 does offer OTA updates, but the process was pretty patchy with a lot of owners reporting updates not downloading when they should have, etc. VW have come out to admit they need to improve it. Tesla's OTA updates sound a lot smoother, so Tesla wins I think in this category. But it is not the only EV that to at least some extent offers it.
AutomaticMan
Member
Ah, sorry... I didn't see your post until I'd written my previous post. But I think you'll see if you read my last post that I agree with you.
AutomaticMan
Member
I have a VW ID.3. I am selling it to buy a Tesla M3.
Do you think I prefer the traditional car-makers approach or Tesla's approach?
PITA
Model 3 Performance
Right. I actually agree, this is what is maddening about this thread... I mean, I'm buying a Tesla because I think it has the best experience
But I'm saying that in order to say that other EV makers offer most of the things in PITA's list to some extent. Not that they offer them as well as Tesla does. That, in my opinion, they don't offer them as well as Tesla does is why I'm buying a Tesla. The ID.3 does offer OTA updates, but the process was pretty patchy with a lot of owners reporting updates not downloading when they should have, etc. VW have come out to admit they need to improve it. Tesla's OTA updates sound a lot smoother, so Tesla wins I think in this category. But it is not the only EV that to at least some extent offers it.
My BMW Motorcycle Offers over the air updates if my Dealer throws a USB stick at me... does that count?
Honestly, just stop with this nonsense with calling people pathetic because they disagree with you. Every other car I've had for the last 6 years has had auto wiper functionality that works better than the Tesla. Yes, its a fairly minor complaint in the grand scheme of things but its still a valid point. Auto wiper funtionality has become 'the norm' so it's right to have expectation that this will work properly.
AutomaticMan
Member
Amusing, but not really the point
VW's OTA updates for the ID vehicles is designed to work very similarly to Tesla's model. It is just that it is brand new to them, and the first time they attempted it owners found out that it was quite buggy! It worked fine for me (just like the way that I understand Tesla's to work), but other owners reported problems on forums. VW have admitted there are bugs in it and promise to fix them for next time.I'm simply saying that, factually, the VW does not have to be updated by the dealer/USB stick.
I am not going to judge people here. What I meant by that makes a huge difference to me is - I prefer auto industry innovating the electric tech than just making profits just by modifying the same car in different versions.
AutomaticMan
Member
And what I meant is that I obviously agree with you to a point or I wouldn't be trading a VW for a Tesla
I just don't feel that buying a Tesla means that I'm not allowed to notice and mention areas where I think it would be nice for them to improve. Every product I own I think is the better than competing products from other companies, because if I didn't I would have bought the competing product instead. But I can point out areas that could be improved in all of them.
Ok, let me try you with another one. The Tesla M3 has a Spotify app. That's great, but I use Apple Music so would like for Tesla to add an Apple Music app please. Am I allowed to say that, or by saying that am I somehow accidentally suggesting that I hate Tesla's approach to vehicle design overall and just don't get their vision-based AI genius?
Of course you can say that. Everyone will have a wish list what Tesla needs to improve on. No car is perfect we have done all those arguments here.And what I meant is that I obviously agree with you to a point or I wouldn't be trading a VW for a Tesla
I just don't feel that buying a Tesla means that I'm not allowed to notice and mention areas where I think it would be nice for them to improve. Every product I own I think is the better than competing products from other companies, because if I didn't I would have bought the competing product instead. But I can point out areas that could be improved in all of them.
Ok, let me try you with another one. The Tesla M3 has a Spotify app. That's great, but I use Apple Music so would like for Tesla to add an Apple Music app please. Am I allowed to say that, or by saying that am I somehow accidentally suggesting that I hate Tesla's approach to vehicle design overall and just don't get their vision-based AI genius?
I knew what Tesla had or didn’t have before I bought the car. I weighed up my choices and took a decision. I am sure most of us do that when you buy a car.
The difficulty with a wish list is some are fulfilled and some not. Unfortunately Apple Music falls in that category where I knew apple and Tesla are not going to bury their differences and work collaboratively as they see each other as direct competitors similar to Amazon and Google.
Expressing your wish is different to dismissing Tesla just because it doesn’t have car play or Apple Music or rain sensors. You commit after knowing some of these issues and of course if you don’t know this before buying then you have the option of moving to another brand after selling or once you’ve finished your lease.
Have you run an EV other than a Tesla? We also run a ZOE (our second). Both are great cars ... and both could be improved. With regard to your above points;
- Our ZOE has a 5 year warranty on the car (instead of 4 for the Tesla) and 8 years, 100,000 miles on the battery (the LR is for 120,000 miles I believe).
- It's a legal requirement that you can have your car serviced at any competent garage without the warranty being invalidated. Fewer false facts please.
- Our ZOEs have only been to the dealers for annual inspections (though they are called a service) and the visits have been relatively cheap. One BMS firmware update on each car done by the dealer at no cost.
- I've generally had few problems with public charging in the ZOE, admittedly mainly due to careful planning. But I've never had to phone to get a charger working, as I've always had plans B and C. I still do with the Tesla - there aren't Superchargers everywhere I go, and avoiding them often shortens some of the journeys I do.
- Our M3 LR has been into the Service Centre twice (2 hours return journey twice each time, with a courtesy car) in 6 months to fix rattles, replace a door card and fix the boot opening and closing. And communication with people hasn't been easy (although on the last visit they've changed things so you talk directly to the technician, which is a big improvement). So much for me not seeing Tesla.
Having said all that, the M3 LR is still a great EV and we will be keeping it a long time. I'm just looking forward for it doing some day-to-day things that the ZOE does already.
There are (as for the rest of this thread) two sides to this as well. I was in the Lakes for two weeks recently with the Tesla our of range of WiFi, but with great broadband in the house. Had to wait to get home to conveniently download an update. Not a great problem. If the ZOE had been there then I could have downloaded onto a USB stick and updated the car from that - and that approach is fast and does work well.
In an ideal world, both cars would support WiFi downloads and USB stick updates.
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AutomaticMan
Member
Absolutely, I don't disagree with any of that. I now know that at least some owners report that the vision-based automatic wipers aren't as reliable as the older fashioned tech used by traditional car-makers for their automatic wipers. I think this is a shame, but it is pretty small fry in the grand scheme of all the many amazing features that the Tesla offers, so it's hardly something I would cancel my order over.
Yeah, I'm still trying to work out what to do about Apple Music. I fear you may be right and so I'm toying with the idea of moving to Spotify. But Apple Music has already learnt my preferences and I'm loathe to start again with a new service having to learn my preferences from scratch. I find these recommender systems to be excellent these days, but you do have to go through a learning phase with them where some of the recommendations are a bit nuts!
One of the good thing is you get free Spotify subscription- you save some money by cancelling Apple Music. I think it is only for 3 months if you do not have a premium subscription. All lease cars come with free subscription and LTE
If its driving autonomously heck you don’t need wipers at all - just make the windscreen a big telly.
There wouldn’t be a point having a sensor if we had an AI determining the right amount of wiper action. You’re right. But we don’t. Cart before the horse basically. You have a sensor as the primary solution because its proven and inexpensive. Then *when* your AI works you can transition to that solution and phase out the sensor in future models.
As George mentioned a really good point is such a sensor would also help you validate your AI handling too - a known control vs your AI training. Right now, how do Tesla even measure the performance? Do they treat every manual push of the wiper stalk as a failure becuase it means the AI didn’t get it right to the users satisfaction?
I set mine once in 7 years of ownership. Perhaps you had a dud.
I thought I might have a dud with my Tesla wipers. So I logged it with the SC. Basically I got tea and sympathy. The SC manager called me and agreed they were crap, citing the Peugeot 108 that he owned as having a better system.
Also you can stream Apple Music via Bluetooth so it is not all bad.
The cameras will need to be able to see.
I don't think it's right to think that Tesla are constantly learning from our actions, there would be too much data without sufficient accuracy. If or when they choose to train the wipers model they will ask the cars to collect data under specific situations, colours, light levels etc. The point being that it's not necessary to learn from people, it's easy to figure out what 'right' is in a situation, the purpose of the fleet is to bring back situations.
PITA
Model 3 Performance
What you're referring to is Block Exemption, which is a European Union Law and legal in the UK until it expires in May 2023.
What exactly are you getting 'serviced' on a Tesla, that needs an independent garage?
Ok...I’d agree with most of what you say, though lots of those features are not unique to Tesla. But also:
Minimal interior is subjective, and I find it too minimalist. I want a decent binnacle display and a HUD. I also want the interior to be covered in huge amounts of real dead animal rather than the cheap and nasty vegan “leather” that looks and feels like no leather I’ve ever seen.
The front seats are not nearly supportive enough for a car of this performance.
Build quality is ok but doesn’t come close to despised German manufacturers
My M3P is not nearly as comfortable and refined as a car in this price range should be. Road noise is intrusive over 30mph and wind noise over 50mph.
Software updates are just as likely to break something as to introduce new features and needs another update to fix it.
I’m not going to mention phantom braking and the crap wipers and auto lights. Whoops, I just did
Lets go over it
Interior - As you've stated, you'll never like it, they'll never change it
The front seats - As you've stated, you'll never like it, they'll never change it
Build quality is ok - will always be "ok" from your viewpoint - even when it's made in Germany by Germans
Software updates are just as likely to break something as to introduce new features - That will never change, they will always change their software and annoy some people
crap wipers and auto lights - Wipers will always be "crap" they wont add the rain sensor, maybe you'll like the matrix lights if you buy a new one in a year.
Soo... Waiting for Tesla to make a "great car" for you sounds like a waste of time.
Does this "great car" even exist? If so, why not get that?
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