Porsche dealers are not too stressed about investing in ultra highspeed charging stations (half-mil is small change for them in the overall scheme of things), according to our local Porsche dealer. They are eager to start selling their electric cars as soon as possible next year when the Taycan is revealed at the 2019 LA Auto Show - they have no doubt they will sell every Taycan they can get allocated by Porsche.
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VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout
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Porsche dealers are not too stressed about investing in ultra highspeed charging stations (half-mil is small change for them in the overall scheme of things), according to our local Porsche dealer. They are eager to start selling their electric cars as soon as possible next year when the Taycan is revealed at the 2019 LA Auto Show - they have no doubt they will sell every Taycan they can get allocated by Porsche.
Pretty much.
Tesla owners have the Supercharger network, which every Tesla owner says is vastly superior to any other network, so why cry about not being able to use the EA stations?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
More information about pricing... Porsche Taycan to be priced between Cayenne and Panamera (~$75,000), says program director
In the US, a Cayenne starts at about $62,000 and a Panamera start at around $85,000 before taxes. Therefore, it would be fair to say that the vehicle will start at around $75,000, which is actually in line with previously unconfirmed leaks. It could also inch its way to right under $85,000 without him being wrong.
That said, $75,000 would be for the very base model of the Taycan. Porsche is expected to produce the all-electric vehicle in different performance trim and Porsche Chief Financial Officer Lutz Meschke said the top version could be priced up to 200,000 euros ($230,000 USD). Porsche is notorious for upselling on premium features its high-end clientele expect.
In the US, a Cayenne starts at about $62,000 and a Panamera start at around $85,000 before taxes. Therefore, it would be fair to say that the vehicle will start at around $75,000, which is actually in line with previously unconfirmed leaks. It could also inch its way to right under $85,000 without him being wrong.
That said, $75,000 would be for the very base model of the Taycan. Porsche is expected to produce the all-electric vehicle in different performance trim and Porsche Chief Financial Officer Lutz Meschke said the top version could be priced up to 200,000 euros ($230,000 USD). Porsche is notorious for upselling on premium features its high-end clientele expect.
Now open this weekend from 9am to 4pm as part of testing.
Recargo conducts “soft open” of first ultra-fast DC location in CA
Ulmo
Active Member
I got an email about it from the Plugshare Mobile App because I have a login on it.
Since Tesla doesn't use CCS and its CHAdeMO adapter for S & X tops out at 125 amps (barely more than 50kW at higher states of charge on larger Tesla batteries right before it tapers down again), the faster charging isn't directly related to Tesla.
Since this location is in Salinas, it looks like they're getting ready for a US-101 route between SF and LA. It would also be ready for anyone on the way to Monterey events, or on the way to racing at Laguna Seca. (There are a few nice drives I like that get over to I-5 from US-101 between Salinas and LA or Central Valley, as well, but I doubt they're going to make a main route of that, but it is one option; back in 2017, Chademo (& CCS) was available on I-99 & around US-101 and US-1, but not I-5 until Tracy. Of course, everything West and North of Salinas is well covered, as well as everything East and NorthEast of Silicon Valley (including up to Tahoe).)
Come by the Prunedale Shopping Center on Sunday and get a free fast charge for your EV!
The Recargo Network is about open one of the most advanced fast-charging facilities in the world, and you're invited to get a sneak preview and a free test charge on Sunday, October 21st, between 9AM and 4PM at the Prunedale Shopping Center (behind Ace Hardware and CVS) at 8065 San Miguel Canyon Rd., Salinas CA 93907.
NOTE: Before visiting, please ensure your vehicle is capable of charging on a DC fast charger (CCS or CHAdeMO). Unfortunately, all plug-in hybrids and some BEVs purchased without a DC charge option do not have DC fast-charge capabilities.
WHERE: Prunedale Shopping Center, 8065 San Miguel Canyon Rd., Salinas CA 93907 (behind CVS and Ace Hardware)
WHEN: Sunday, October 21st between 9am - 4pm
This project was funded in part by the Monterey Bay Air Resources District (MBARD).
The Recargo Network is about open one of the most advanced fast-charging facilities in the world, and you're invited to get a sneak preview and a free test charge on Sunday, October 21st, between 9AM and 4PM at the Prunedale Shopping Center (behind Ace Hardware and CVS) at 8065 San Miguel Canyon Rd., Salinas CA 93907.
NOTE: Before visiting, please ensure your vehicle is capable of charging on a DC fast charger (CCS or CHAdeMO). Unfortunately, all plug-in hybrids and some BEVs purchased without a DC charge option do not have DC fast-charge capabilities.
WHERE: Prunedale Shopping Center, 8065 San Miguel Canyon Rd., Salinas CA 93907 (behind CVS and Ace Hardware)
WHEN: Sunday, October 21st between 9am - 4pm
This project was funded in part by the Monterey Bay Air Resources District (MBARD).
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Ulmo
Active Member
I want the Tesla Online Shop to offer native CCS retrofits (not adapters, since CCS doesn't allow that, annoyingly). For Model 3, it could fit in a new rear right flap (leaving the left one for the existing Tesla socket), and for Model S & X, I guess it could be with a pop-out-fold-out socket out a new right rear flap (that comes out like a flower opening up, so the size of the socket grows to what CCS requires out of that small flap hole). But, I don't see any value proposition in it for most people, since most people can use SuperChargers.But completely in line with the settlement, as pointed out above. If Tesla or Nissan wanted to add CCS compatibility, nothing is stopping them from doing that.
What's more curious is why Tesla is taking so long to add CHAdeMO support for the Model 3. What's up with that? Even if all EA stations had CHAdeMO plugs, they would still be equally worthless to 3 owners since they can't use the CHAdeMO adapter.
I spent the time to go down there today and got my free fast charge. I was very impressed that there was a senior Recargo person there who knew all the technical details about the site. This is probably the only site in California that can deliver more than 125 amps to a CHAdeMO connector. Electrify America chargers are very much like the ones installed here, but they made the decision to cap theirs at 125 amps until "further testing is completed". I am not optimistic on how long that might take. However, today, these Recargo stations are capable of delivering 150 amps to CHAdeMO vehicles, should any of them ask for it. The first vehicle to officially support that should be the 60kWh Leaf e+, or whatever it will actually be called when it's released in the US. These stations are capable of delivering even more current through the CHAdeMO connector in the future.
Some site and charger specs:
- 6 charging pedestals, each with a CHAdeMO and CCS connector.
- each pedestal has a dedicated 200kW charging cabinet. Charging hardware is made by BTC Power.
- Recargo elected to dedicate a cabinet to each pedestal, even though the cabinet design allows sharing power to two (or more?) pedestals like a Supercharger.
- The site has a Tesla Powerpack battery system with 4 battery cabinets and one Tesla inverter. Until there are more EVs on the road and ones that can take higher power, they will probably be able to charge cars directly from the batteries and only recharge the Powerpacks with off-peak electricity. The batteries are not online yet. The site is subject to demand charges, so limiting the peak draw of the site is the main purpose of the battery storage system.
- during this soft launch period, they only have 3 pedestals online. They will take the site offline again for final updates to the charging station software, then bring the site permanently online in a few more weeks.
- 200kW rating is based on 500V at 400A. The chargers can push up to 500A for short bursts, presumably at low vehicle SOC when the voltage is lower. Presumably, the chargers can support higher voltages in the future. However, I doubt that the Taycan will take much more than 200kW anyway, so the 200kW charger will not be very limiting.
- CHAdeMO cables are rated for 400A and CCS cables are actively cooled. I don't remember the CCS cable rating, but it should presumably match the 500A short duration, 400A continuous rating of the charging cabinet. Because the CHAdeMO cable is not actively cooled, it is noticeably fatter than the CCS cable.
There is a pre-production ChargePoint Express 250 installed near the loading dock at ChargePoint HQ in Campbell that is available for public use that is generally capable of 156A at up to 62.5 kW. I suspect, but do not know, that its CHAdeMO cable will support that level of output like its CCS cable does.
This is probably correct, although the Kia Soul EV has been shown to unofficially support charging at 60-70 kW on CHAdeMO which represents 170A or more at a low state of charge.
Based on BTC charger specs that are presumably related to these, it should already be able to charge at up to 950V or perhaps up to 1,000V but at a peak total power of 200 kW.
I very much doubt that the CHAdeMO connectors are rated for anything over 250A. I didn’t check the cable rating. Presumably the cables and connector can be upgraded in the future when actively cooled CHAdeMO parts become available.
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The ChargePoint HQ is much closer to me, so I should go try it out too. Comments in ChargePoint app and Plugshare indicate that it is essentially in beta test and has been down periodically for development work, including fixing compatibility problems. Sometimes it's limited to 125 amps on one or both connectors too.
Yes, I forgot about the Soul EV. It clearly does take more than 125 amps on CHAdeMO.
As to the CHAdeMO cable, I took pictures of them. The handle is made by Sumitomo, but it must be new product that does not appear on their web site. The cable itself is positively huge and heavy. The outside diameter must be at least 50% larger than a Supercharger cable that routinely passes 330 amps.
Yes, I forgot about the Soul EV. It clearly does take more than 125 amps on CHAdeMO.
As to the CHAdeMO cable, I took pictures of them. The handle is made by Sumitomo, but it must be new product that does not appear on their web site. The cable itself is positively huge and heavy. The outside diameter must be at least 50% larger than a Supercharger cable that routinely passes 330 amps.
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure ...
I don't see anything in the CCS specs that forbids an Adaptor. Might be expensive to develop / low priority for Tesla / etc ...
However:
The CCS fans, such as i-Pace, are crowing with "Superchargers will soon be full with M3s blah blah blah" along with "ultra super-doopah fast rapid CCS will be everywhere by this time tomorrow" etc etc
Of course we know that CCS rollout will actually take some years, and new CCS sites have relatively few stalls, compared to new Supercharger locations ...
So I think there is huge PR opportunity for Tesla to make a CCS adaptor. Overnight all Tesla vehicles will be able to use all CCS locations ... but the reverse won't be true ... so as CCS roll out more locations, and Tesla roll out more Superchargers, then Tesla owners would have best-of-both worlds. So more people will choose to buy Tesla rather than CCS
QED
Agreed, I suspect the no adapter thing is an internet rumor.
Thanks for the slide. The new Sumitomo cable I saw seems to roughly match the parameters shown, 2 power conductors 00 AWG (67.4mm^2) and 13 conductors 18AWG (0.824mm^2).
Just published on my website.
Electrify America overhauls website, adds dozens of new sites “coming soon”
Electrify America overhauls website, adds dozens of new sites “coming soon”
New Q3 California update from EA at my website:
In Q3 update, Electrify America says Cycle 1 CA highway sites on track for June, 2019
97 of 157 DC sites leased
53 in permit stage
13 under construction
3 completed but not yet open
The ~50 highway corridor sites are claimed to be on track but without much margin for unexpected delays. Some of the ~110 community DC sites may miss the June 2019 deadline and complete by the end of 2019.
Community AC charging is running behind schedule with 64 of ~350 sites leased but with over 500 additional possible sites identified. They are continuing to add resources to bring it back on schedule. The first three AC sites are now open.
In Q3 update, Electrify America says Cycle 1 CA highway sites on track for June, 2019
97 of 157 DC sites leased
53 in permit stage
13 under construction
3 completed but not yet open
The ~50 highway corridor sites are claimed to be on track but without much margin for unexpected delays. Some of the ~110 community DC sites may miss the June 2019 deadline and complete by the end of 2019.
Community AC charging is running behind schedule with 64 of ~350 sites leased but with over 500 additional possible sites identified. They are continuing to add resources to bring it back on schedule. The first three AC sites are now open.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I don't know the difference between a 'master agreement' and an executed lease but my sense is that EA intends to build these sites, albeit with delay. A a Tesla fan, delay is hardly something new and I accept it as part of the story. My issues with them are the high charging cost (~ 40 cents a kWh as a ballpark average charge) and the moronic exclusion of Tesla. Regarding the latter, perhaps they can tear out the CHadeMO and replace with Tesla.
So far though, No where I go will have DCFC and not Superchargers so the entire project strikes me as one big waste.
So far though, No where I go will have DCFC and not Superchargers so the entire project strikes me as one big waste.
It will certainly be entertaining to watch them scramble to meet the deadline. They seem to be prioritizing the highway sites which I think is the right idea.
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