VW will trample tesla

[Sean Wagner]

I also think regional tastes will come into play. Setting aside the growth rate of CUV's, the lack of a hatchback could be a big downside here. Look at every country in Europe and EVERY single one's best seller for years has been a hatchback. If VW can get to market in 2020 with something Golf size/shaped (I.D.) in 2020, then the Model 3 will come under pressure here just down to this difference in body style.(IMHO).

This mirrors my thinking - I agree with you on the importance of localized [body] styles, and how the VW I.D. gets that just right for the European market [not astonishing given the company].

What I'm not so sure of is the still somewhat putative VW I.D.'s price in 2020 or 2021.
A presently equally hazy Tesla Model Y would have a huge potential for sales in Europe too, and be able to command significantly higher prices.
So how quickly will battery packs fall in cost?

 

[1208]

We have dealerships in the UK.

 

[smac]

Please, those out-side US, tell us if your car stores are company owned or do you have a (franchise?) "dealership" model?
Especially curious about England, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Definitely a dealership model here in the UK. Maybe(?) slightly different as many have been aggregated over the years into large (listed) multi-franchise businesses. These firms operate Mercedes + Audi + Jaguar + .Ford + VW across the country, but don't brand share at any one location.

HTH.

 

[Olds442]

VW electric micro bus in baby blue with cream accents please.

 

[Aljohn]

Here are some cars VW can pick from. They have 300,000 parked after recall. Nuff Said.

 

[Olds442]

i smell a spring sales event brewing.

 

[shrspeedblade]

i smell a spring sales event brewing.

.....and here I thought it was their pig-rich exhaust!

 

[The Duke]

Tesla's mission needs to be considered. If Tesla crushes VW, Tesla wins. If VW crushes Tesla with better EV's Tesla still fulfills its mission.

 

[S'toon]

VW electric micro bus in baby blue with cream accents please.

I dunno. I like the yellow of the concept.

 

[Brando]

Tesla's mission needs to be considered. If Tesla crushes VW, Tesla wins. If VW crushes Tesla with better EV's Tesla still fulfills its mission.

VW should pull out engines, exhaust systems, fuel tanks - sell to the Do It Yourself electric conversion crowd. Better yet give them to "schools" and let students do it. High Schools, colleges and even Universities.

Please try to get this idea to VW or how about the CARB [California Air Resources Board] ?

 

[Brando]

VW should pull out engines, exhaust systems, fuel tanks - sell to the Do It Yourself electric conversion crowd. Better yet give them to "schools" and let students do it. High Schools, colleges and even Universities.

Please try to get this idea to VW or how about the CARB [California Air Resources Board] ?

Subject: What to do with old VW diesel cars.
Comment:
1- Have VW remove engines, exhaust, fuel tanks

2- Let these shells be converted to electric vehicles.
(careful, don't allow ICE engines put back)
(perhaps give VW ZEV credits on these, if VW wants)
- who might/would buy these shells?
- Do It Yourself people
- existing electric conversion companies - EVwest is an example
- schools and colleges could take on a shop projects

check out
Comment Letter for CARB Beneficiary Mitigation Trust Plan
Board Meeting Comments Log

Please help. Others may know better places to promote this idea. Conversion people could use these VW shells, yes?

 

[Peteski]

Definitely a dealership model here in the UK. Maybe(?) slightly different as many have been aggregated over the years into large (listed) multi-franchise businesses. These firms operate Mercedes + Audi + Jaguar + .Ford + VW across the country, but don't brand share at any one location.

HTH.

And you forgot to mention how terrible their typical service standards are! Basically all about shifting stock whether you want it or not. It was like a breath of fresh air dealing with Tesla direct. Obviously some of the individual dealerships are good (like our local BMW franchise, which is part of a very small chain run by an ex-Sytner guy who actually cares about customer satisfaction), but most are poor or very poor. Even our local Porsche dealership has a terrible service department and old-fashioned hard sell sales and it's rated as one of the better ones on the Porsche forums!

As for VW, our local dealership is pathetic and the current products bland. I nearly fell asleep while test driving a Passat a couple of years ago, it was that dull! For me diesel gate was the last straw in ever buying a VW again on principle. Not that I've owned one since I had a Mk2 Golf GTI back in the mid 80's - which was a great car at the time.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Good to see VW finally getting into the EV game. Better late than never.

Concept Microbus looks fantastic, but see no way that is going to pass crash testing.

VW has a tremendous black eye from blatently lying to emission regulators. Thought they were being clever by rigging their diesels to pass emissions, but still pollute a literal blue streak.

I believe that the world is beginning to embrace clean EV's and Clean Solar Power. Tesla alone cannot make enough EV's to power the world's need for personal transportation, so if someone can come along with an even better EV, then the world will be an even better place, and Tesla will have done it's job.

 

[smac]

@Peteski My experience of dealing with Tesla UK, particularly on the service side, was they were hugely disorganised. Didn't seem to even have a proper job booking system, random (long) waits for service visits, massively overstretched technicians, no spare parts inventory, etc. etc.

I admit on the vehicle sales side traditional dealerships involved a bit more "negotiation" skills when buying a car (By basically saying no to all sorts of paint protection / insurance products etc.) But if you don't want this, it's easy to buy a car from one of the online brokerage sites, who'll do all this for you and deliver a car to your door, likely at a better price than you could manage on your own.

 

[smac]

What I'm not so sure of is the still somewhat putative VW I.D.'s price in 2020 or 2021.

VW are claiming the ID will be comparable to a similarly equipped Golf Diesel in price. So I guess around £30-35k in the UK.

So how quickly will battery packs fall in cost?

For the first round of cars I think it's likely to be pack quantity limited. LG + Samsung's plants in Poland / Hungary are targeting enough cells for c. 300k x 200 mile range cars per year.

The recent announcement by VW they have placed $48bn worth of advance battery contracts should see even more large battery facilities go in.

Will be interesting to see if we get announcements from LG/Samsung/Panasonic of new US and EU plants over the next month or so. It looks like from breaking ground to production is c. 2 years. (Using LG's Poland facility as a guide.)

 

[Asterix187]

Hasn’t VW discontinued the e-golf?

 

[darrelld]

My experience with the VW Jetta Hybrid.

Tried to find out from VW when the car will be available.
VW response: Soon
1 year later called VW corporate about Jetta Hybrid
VW response: Next few months
6 months later VW dealer has a base Jetta Hybrid that we took for a test drive.
Questioned dealer about availability.
VW Dealer response, soon.
Checked Cars.com for nationwide Jetta Hybrid availabilty and a total of 30 Jetta Hybrids were available nationwide.
In the mean time VW dealers regularly called pushing TDI models.
Finally VW announced the Jetta Hybrid will no longer be available due to lack of demand.

So based on my past VW experiences I will believe the VW EV's when I actually see them on the dealer lots for sale.

 

[Peteski]

@Peteski My experience of dealing with Tesla UK, particularly on the service side, was they were hugely disorganised. Didn't seem to even have a proper job booking system, random (long) waits for service visits, massively overstretched technicians, no spare parts inventory, etc. etc.

I admit on the vehicle sales side traditional dealerships involved a bit more "negotiation" skills when buying a car (By basically saying no to all sorts of paint protection / insurance products etc.) But if you don't want this, it's easy to buy a car from one of the online brokerage sites, who'll do all this for you and deliver a car to your door, likely at a better price than you could manage on your own.

Yeah, I've just used the likes of Drive The Deal to buy cars in the past. But doesn't work with Porsche. I don't have great regard for the service departments in most franchised dealerships either and have always had better service from independents. Sounds like Tesla service can be poor too, just haven't had to use it much yet. The 2 visits I've had so far to our local Tesla service centre (both minor issues) were resolved quickly and efficiently. I realise there is a problem with parts supply, but haven't needed any yet. Buying the car was a nice experience.

 

[Brando]

VW are claiming the ID will be comparable to a similarly equipped Golf Diesel in price. So I guess around £30-35k in the UK.

For the first round of cars I think it's likely to be pack quantity limited. LG + Samsung's plants in Poland / Hungary are targeting enough cells for c. 300k x 200 mile range cars per year.

The recent announcement by VW they have placed $48bn worth of advance battery contracts should see even more large battery facilities go in.

Will be interesting to see if we get announcements from LG/Samsung/Panasonic of new US and EU plants over the next month or so. It looks like from breaking ground to production is c. 2 years. (Using LG's Poland facility as a guide.)

Most of us know batteries are evolving every year - 5-7% min. - so I see this as yet another Tesla advantage- Tesla understands how important the batteries are. $48 billion in projected battery buying? Gee, $5-6 billion could get them a GigaFactory. Would you want your batteries from the lowest bidder? Of course the pack/battery management is the other half of the equation.

Are there any other car companies making both cells and packs?
Lutz/Detroit may think it is stupid. I think it is critical. And I agree with Elon. Ford Model T didn't win just being the best, it was also the factory. internet search Ford River Rouge Complex in Dearborn.

PS - Tesla keeps battery chemistry as a trade secret and continues to spend R&D on battery technology.
Will be interesting to see who will step up and compete against Tesla. Would be interesting to compare R&D budgets of battery companies to Tesla.
(breaking out battery only R&D would be difficult, especially since storage is also a big part of Tesla business)

 

[Olds442]

People bitch about tesla service experiences endlessly on this site, but any time i've needed something done i've scheduled it, it's confirmed and the guy shows up and fixes it or i drop it off. not one mfg has ever come to my home to fix anything. tesla has done it twice; door handle and 12 volt battery.

I just thought with all the negative that bubbles up here some positive experiences should be heard as well.

OT: I do hope VW makes some strides, before.... yawn,,,, 2020.