Wales to introduce 20mph default speed limit

[Taff18]

Many years ago I went to college in North Wales - we had a wonderful time rallying, both on the roads and in the forests.

Can someone explain how this new rule applies? Is it in urban areas only? What are the limits in regular rural roads? What about on the single track roads in places like Anglesey for instance?

Sadly this rule applies to seemingly all previous 30mph stretches of roads. It is not just urban areas affected. I’m out in West Wales and through some rural villages you now have to spend a couple of miles sitting at 20.

In my view it creates a far more dangerous situation. in a 30mph situation everyone followed happily in line. Now in a 20mph zone I am seeing dangerous overtaking ruining what the whole safety objective is. One afternoon out near Carmarthen I clocked 4 overtakes within an hours drive. There are places 20mph is appropriate eg by schools but the blanket use of it is not well thought through.

 

[drtimhill]

Ah Seattle. Majority of your cars are autos, majority of UK cars are manual - or stick shift as you say, so gear selection determines the efficiency.

Is that really still the case? (and I'm from the UK so also call it "manual") .. every time I'm there I see mostly automatic these days. Though I'm mostly in and around London so maybe its different.

 

[rincewind]

I tried a couple of miles of 20mph recently. I found that a substantial amount of my attention was taken watching the speed readout. Too much, in my view.

 

[zoros]

All existing 30mph zones were 're-assessed'. The majority were reclassified as 20mph.
Unlike other parts of the UK (england, Ireland and Scotland), this was a blanket reclassification not 'zonal'
(zonal: designated smaller areas: outside schools / hospitals / care homes).

 

[M1tch]

It’s just another government backed scam to control us and steal your money if you don’t comply.

 

[NewbieT]

All existing 30mph zones were 're-assessed'. The majority were reclassified as 20mph.
Unlike other parts of the UK (england, Ireland and Scotland), this was a blanket reclassification not 'zonal'
(zonal: designated smaller areas: outside schools / hospitals / care homes).

In practice makes not much difference. Patchy random implementation with plenty of 30 zones still.

 

[Jason71]

Is that really still the case? (and I'm from the UK so also call it "manual") .. every time I'm there I see mostly automatic these days. Though I'm mostly in and around London so maybe its different.

With all the BEVs etc. Sales of cars without a manual box now outnumber manuals i think but at least 70% of cars on the road are still manual. Almost everyone still learns to drive in a manual.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Almost everyone still learns to drive in a manual.

I've had conversations with parents of 17 year olds as to why they are bothering with Manual driving test ...

Going to be redundant with EVs, and harder to learn to drive if you have to also grapple with clutch/gears rather than just accelerator / brake which would allocate more concentration to "roadcraft". Maybe Manual increases number of lessons required for driving instructors ...

 

[zoros]

In practice makes not much difference. Patchy random implementation with plenty of 30 zones still.

Newbie - you obviously don't live in south wales!
7 villages in a row, almost back to back, eah with their joined up 20mph zone along a total length of A road of 14 miles. 50 minutes to travel 14 miles!!! Patchy???

 

[Jason71]

I've had conversations with parents of 17 year olds as to why they are bothering with Manual driving test ...

Going to be redundant with EVs, and harder to learn to drive if you have to also grapple with clutch/gears rather than just accelerator / brake which would allocate more concentration to "roadcraft". Maybe Manual increases number of lessons required for driving instructors ...

Yes. "Going to be" is the key phase there. Not yet
My daughter just passed her test, in a manual. Yes it was more work for her but the problem is most of the small insurable cars out there are manuals and will continue to be for a few years yet so if you pass your test in an auto it makes it difficult and expensive to find a car and I did not want to handicap her with that problem.
It may be that 30% of cars on the road are autos now but in small cars it is probably less than 10%.
As an example one of the cheapest and cheapest to insure cars you can buy is a Citroen C1. Currently on AutoTrader there are 1200 manuals for sale and 35 automatics. Typically the autos are 50% more expensive for an equivalent used car and in my experience the auto boxes on cars like that are also rubbish not to mention unreliable and expensive to fix.

 

[NewbieT]

I don’t live in Wales, no. In North Wales you’re jumping from 40 to 20 to 30 to 20 like a rollercoaster. The zones make little sense often too. Poorly implemented in my view.

 

[MrBadger]

I don’t live in Wales, no. In North Wales you’re jumping from 40 to 20 to 30 to 20 like a rollercoaster. The zones make little sense often too. Poorly implemented in my view.

South West London was my previous life so I knew the roads like back of my hand. I still visit every few months.

Many boroughs implemented 20mph zones a number of years ago.

Ignoring the ULEZ debate, speed cameras right after a speed limit change and crazy bus priority lanes, these roads are now a nightmare to drive.

As someone previously mentioned, at 20mph you spend a large proportion of your time constantly checking your speed by which time they have changed the speed limit again. Its a 20/30/20/40/20 rollercoaster.

For a long time I have been of the opinion that even the best driver would break at least one points deduction worth offence if driving from one side of London to the other via central London (a trip I use to regularly undertake). But now I don’t think you could drive even a few miles in many unfamiliar neighbourhoods before committing some mister meaner. They certainly know how to try and keep cars off the road.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

With all the BEVs etc. Sales of cars without a manual box now outnumber manuals i think but at least 70% of cars on the road are still manual. Almost everyone still learns to drive in a manual.

In 2019/2020 10.9% of passes were in automatics. Higher proportion of automatics amongst female drivers.

Is learning in an automatic the new normal? | Marmalade

Will automatic cars will soon surpass manuals as the preferred choice for driving tests? We're taking a look!

www.wearemarmalade.co.uk

I expect it to rise as the proportion of automatics, hybrids and plug-ins increases in the used market.

 

[Jason71]

In 2019/2020 10.9% of passes were in automatics. Higher proportion of automatics amongst female drivers.

Is learning in an automatic the new normal? | Marmalade

Will automatic cars will soon surpass manuals as the preferred choice for driving tests? We're taking a look!

www.wearemarmalade.co.uk

I expect it to rise as the proportion of automatics, hybrids and plug-ins increases in the used market.

I rented a car in the US recently and as I was picking it it the lady at the counter said.
"You can have a second driver on this vehicle free of charge, and it is a automatic, so your wife will be able to drive it if she wants to"
I was in a hurry so I didn't take the time to explain to her that my wife, daughter and most other people in the UK can "drive stick" but it did make me laugh.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

My wife would have bitten the lady's head off for a remark like that.. sounds like something from the 1950s.

 

[Adopado]

The 20mph issue really depends on the implementation. We have lots of 20mph limits around the Scottish Borders but I would say where they appear justified. I haven't seen any speed cameras installed that are associated with the 20mph limits. People do reduce their speed accordingly but do drive a bit over the strict 20mph (20 to 25) ... but it's still a worthwhile reduction because people used to drive a bit over the 30mph before. We have the automatic signs that flag up your speed so that makes the limit more obvious. I am generally in favour of the changes but would not be if there was over zealous policing and speed cameras all over the place. Of course driving an EV slowly and smoothly is a piece of cake compared to a manual car that's in-between suitable gear ratios.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The 20mph issue really depends on the implementation. We have lots of 20mph limits around the Scottish Borders but I would say where they appear justified. I haven't seen any speed cameras installed that are associated with the 20mph limits. People do reduce their speed accordingly but do drive a bit over the strict 20mph (20 to 25) ... but it's still a worthwhile reduction because people used to drive a bit over the 30mph before. We have the automatic signs that flag up your speed so that makes the limit more obvious. I am generally in favour of the changes but would not be if there was over zealous policing and speed cameras all over the place. Of course driving an EV slowly and smoothly is a piece of cake compared to a manual car that's in-between suitable gear ratios.

Friends had a holiday in Scotland this year. They can both drive manual, and the one organizing thought that they'd hire a manual to save money. They wouldn't do that again.

 

[Adopado]

Friends had a holiday in Scotland this year. They can both drive manual, and the one organizing thought that they'd hire a manual to save money. They wouldn't do that again.

Yes, definitely "horses for courses" ... but ...having said that ... people with manual cars come to certain areas of Scotland (from other areas of the UK) especially for the driving enjoyment that can be had in a manual sports car.

 

[Doudeau]

Going forwards a filter on Autotrader (and similar) needs to be for whether a car’s cruise control works as low as 20mph.

My e208 Peugeot doesn’t and so it does take more effort to ensure you go as slow as necessary. I understand some speed cameras near me will fine you for 23mph.

 

[MrBadger]

Going forwards a filter on Autotrader (and similar) needs to be for whether a car’s cruise control works as low as 20mph.

Or if it’s got a speed limiter.