Wall Connector with non-Tesla car

[Whatstreet]

I am buying a second EV so I wanted another EVSE. I chose the Tesla Wall Connector because of the changeover to NACS standard and because I am interested in buying a Tesla. Future proofing if you will.

My experience with the Gen 3 Wall Connector and a Chevy Volt is it will charge it with a proper adapter (Lectron or Tesla Tap) but forces the Volt to charge immediately requiring me to get out to plug in the car and then get back in the car and set it back to charge for departure time. A real pita. I hope Tesla fixes this. Also, it is slow in negotiating with the car, it takes like 30 seconds for charging to begin. I have done several experiments comparing it to the old EVSE without moving the car so location has nothing to do with it. The old EVSE works as expected. The level 2 mobile charge that I have works as expected and the Wall Connector forces charge immediate override of departure time delayed charging.

Immediate charging would be expected when plugging into a Wall Connector at a Motel and I suppose that's why it works this way. Also, no one would buy a Wall Connector for a non-Tesla car before this new change over to NACS standard. It is inconvenient for me as a home charge as I plan to have a mix of car makes around. I'll try it on a later model and will replace it and return it if it still forces charge immediate override of departure time charging.

Also, beware of the NACS to J1772 adapters. The first one I bought would not charge the car at all and I had to return it and bought the Lectron adapter. Another point is it appears that adapters to go from J1772 to NACS are less expensive than doing it the other way around.

 

[3sr+buyer]

If you will have two EVSEs, a Volt, and a Tesla, would it make sense to use the old EVSE for the Volt (so that it works properly with the Volt's scheduled charging) and the Tesla Wall Connector for the Tesla? Using either EVSE for the other car would only be needed if one of the EVSEs fails.

 

[ATPMSD]

My experience with the Gen 3 Wall Connector and a Chevy Volt is it will charge it with a proper adapter (Lectron or Tesla Tap) but forces the Volt to charge immediately requiring me to get out to plug in the car and then get back in the car and set it back to charge for departure time. A real pita. I hope Tesla fixes this

If I understand this correctly, this is not a Tesla issue. The Wall Connector is just that, a connector. Charge rate and limits are managed by the car.

 

[Whatstreet]

If I understand this correctly, this is not a Tesla issue. The Wall Connector is just that, a connector. Charge rate and limits are managed by the car.

I suspect the Wall Connector would work without issue with a Tesla as it was designed to work with Tesla's. However, the world has changed and J1772 will be obsolete. So, to future proof I thought I would buy an EVSE with NACS connector and use adapters for now, but someday that would be unnecessary.

I have posted so those researching EVSE's can gain from my experience. The Wall Connector does not seem to be the answer for an NACS EVSE, it is Tesla EVSE. Nothing wrong with that if you know, but if you assume it will work seamlessly with a non-Tesla it will not be true. I can say it will charge it but it's not the same as using a J1772 EVSE.

 

[Whatstreet]

If you will have two EVSEs, a Volt, and a Tesla, would it make sense to use the old EVSE for the Volt (so that it works properly with the Volt's scheduled charging) and the Tesla Wall Connector for the Tesla? Using either EVSE for the other car would only be needed if one of the EVSEs fails.

The second car is also a non-Tesla. I am waiting for the Highland, hopefully I will buy one next year. This was also a consideration to buy the Wall Connector, but given this experience I would rather have an EVSE that will work equally well with any NACS car or to a car with adapter to J1772.

 

[ATPMSD]

I would rather have an EVSE that will work equally well with any NACS car

The NACS is a standard and the Tesla Wall Connector will work just fine with any car that correctly implements the standard. And since the industry is moving to NACS, at the moment the Tesla Wall Connector is the gold standard.

As to J1772, people have been using a variety of Tesla to J1772 adapters for a long time. Make sure you do not confuse a car’s inability to manage charging with the connector - anybody’s connector. BTW, many so called problems with the Tesla to j1772 adapter are due to cheap adapters.

Also consider additional features such as the built in power sharing feature of the Tesla Wall Connector.

That said, I sincerely hope you find a solution you are happy with.

 

[Whatstreet]

Well, I don't know if GM's protocol is NACS but I know Tesla had to change some hardware so it will work with a J1772 EVSE.. NACS standard could be the issue as all of this is a new thing and I am gaining experience with it.

I do know that the car defaulting to immediate charge override of departure time delay will be inconvenient, and I won't tolerate it. So, it looks like it will be a J1772 EVSE with adapter to NACS for me and I know it will work with the Tesla without issue because I have done that here with the J1772 EVSE already.

I just want to put this out there for others considering a Wall Connector to gain a jump on NACS that already have J1772 cars. It isn't what I had hoped for.

 

[davewill]

Tesla wall connectors try to communicate to the car in a manner outside the J1772 spec. It takes 30s to timeout trying before it reverts to the standard. The quality adapters have circuitry in them to handle the communication attempt and speed up the process. Some of them recommend that you connect the adapter to the plug and wait those 30s before plugging it into the car. Worth trying.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm still trying to figure out what you're getting at because this stuff doesn't work this way.

but forces the Volt to charge immediately [...] I hope Tesla fixes this.

No it doesn't. It doesn't "force" anything, so there isn't anything for Tesla to fix. It's always the car that REQUESTS to start charging. Why the Volt is requesting to charge or not at what times, I couldn't say. Wall connectors, regardless of whether they are J1772 or the Tesla plug, never force charging. They announce that they are ready and available, but it is always the car that has to initiate the charging.

 

[3sr+buyer]

My experience with the Gen 3 Wall Connector and a Chevy Volt is it will charge it with a proper adapter (Lectron or Tesla Tap) but forces the Volt to charge immediately requiring me to get out to plug in the car and then get back in the car and set it back to charge for departure time. A real pita.

https://www.chevrolet.com/bypass/pc...EV_Volt_OM_U_en_US_23380516B_2017OCT17_2P.pdf (page 215) indicates that the Volt overrides the scheduled or delayed charging to start charging immediately if you plug it in, unplug, and plug it back in within 5 seconds. Is it possible that some combination of the Tesla Wall Connector and Lectron adapter makes it appear to the car that this plug, unplug, plug sequence is occurring?

 

[Whatstreet]

I'm still trying to figure out what you're getting at because this stuff doesn't work this way.


No it doesn't. It doesn't "force" anything, so there isn't anything for Tesla to fix. It's always the car that REQUESTS to start charging. Why the Volt is requesting to charge or not at what times, I couldn't say. Wall connectors, regardless of whether they are J1772 or the Tesla plug, never force charging. They announce that they are ready and available, but it is always the car that has to initiate the charging.

Well maybe results in Charge Immediate Override of Departure Delay Time would be more appropriate. It happens with the Wall Connector and not when plugging into my two J1772 connectors with the car sitting in the same place. It is an interaction between the two devices and is not desirable to this customer.

The Wall Connector will be returned if the same behavior is observed with the new car.

I am not trying to make a point to you. I am trying to provide information to someone who was considering doing the same thing as I did because of the rational of future proofing to NACS. The J1772 connectors play nice with Tesla's but some functionality of charging a J1772 car may be lost when using a Wall Connector.

As to fix, yes it would be nice. But Wall Connector behavior on NACS future cars is unknown, so it may not be necessary for a fix once they appear.

 

[Whatstreet]

https://www.chevrolet.com/bypass/pc...EV_Volt_OM_U_en_US_23380516B_2017OCT17_2P.pdf (page 215) indicates that the Volt overrides the scheduled or delayed charging to start charging immediately if you plug it in, unplug, and plug it back in within 5 seconds. Is it possible that some combination of the Tesla Wall Connector and Lectron adapter makes it appear to the car that this plug, unplug, plug sequence is occurring?

This is my guess also. It results in inconvenience as I have time of use billing for electricity and so need to use delayed charge.

I think this plugging in and unplugging trick works on other J1772 cars also.

 

[Whatstreet]

Tesla wall connectors try to communicate to the car in a manner outside the J1772 spec. It takes 30s to timeout trying before it reverts to the standard. The quality adapters have circuitry in them to handle the communication attempt and speed up the process. Some of them recommend that you connect the adapter to the plug and wait those 30s before plugging it into the car. Worth trying.

I think you mean plugging in the adapter to the car and then plugging in the NACS to the adapter. I have just been leaving the adapter on the NACS. I will try this.

 

[davewill]

I think you mean plugging in the adapter to the car and then plugging in the NACS to the adapter. I have just been leaving the adapter on the NACS. I will try this.

I actually meant what what I said and what you've been doing, but waiting that 30s before plugging into the car. It will probably make no difference.

 

[Rocky_H]

It is an interaction between the two devices and is not desirable to this customer.

It is an interaction between the THREE devices. I notice in all of this that you keep not mentioning that you are using an unknown, unauthorized, non-OEM, third party adapter device in between the Tesla device and your car. So...there's that.

 

[Whatstreet]

It is an interaction between the THREE devices. I notice in all of this that you keep not mentioning that you are using an unknown, unauthorized, non-OEM, third party adapter device in between the Tesla device and your car. So...there's that.

Yeah, so OK, it's a Tesla charger that I was trying to use for a greater good. I have proven that it is not the best choice for vehicle compatibility and yes with the use of an adapter.

I'm not the only one who wanted to try this. Others seeing an all NACS future have mentioned it as a solution, but it's not.

 

[Rocky_H]

Others seeing an all NACS future have mentioned it as a solution, but it's not.

This conclusion doesn't follow at all. You are trying to use NACS right now on a car that was not made for it. And to enable that are having to use a kludge intermediate adapter that the manufacturers never intended. And you are drawing the conclusion that this can never possibly work at any point in the future. At some point in the future, vehicles will be made that ARE intended to work with it.

It is an interesting issue that some sequence of events with apparent connects and disconnects of the charging plug seems to be causing the Volt's software to freak out and override its own charge schedule setting, but that is a problem with the Volt's software programming that they should address. It's not up to anyone else to fix that.

 

[Whatstreet]

I am agreing with you that this is not a good solution, I have said as much. I am posting to inform others who need an EVSE now, but would like to go NACS and use an adapter for now for future proofing, that this is not the way. Adapting a J1772 EVSE will be more compatible with more cars when using adapters.

This makes sense because NACS was a closed standard and was meant for Tesla cars and J1772 was an open standard meant to work with all cars. I assumed an adapted Wall Connector would work as well as an adapted J1772 EVSE, but it doesn't.

 

[bruce4000]

I saw a State of Charge video (from a year ago ?) that mentioned that the TWC with 1772 was only briefly available and then went away. Looking today it is shown in the Tesla website so assume is available again. My son is thinking about getting one for his Toyota RAV4 prime after its J1772 charging cable died. I assume would work with the Toyota and my Tesla MY with the included Tesla to J1772 adapter.

 

[Rocky_H]

I saw a State of Charge video (from a year ago ?) that mentioned that the TWC with 1772 was only briefly available and then went away.

That was probably referring to the older version that was based on the Gen2 wall connector. That had very limited availability.

Looking today it is shown in the Tesla website so assume is available again.

Yes, there is a newer version that is based on the Gen3 wall connector. This looks like they may be making it a more long term product.

My son is thinking about getting one for his Toyota RAV4 prime after its J1772 charging cable died. I assume would work with the Toyota and my Tesla MY with the included Tesla to J1772 adapter.

Yes, it should be a good general use J1772 station that can work for all cars.