Was the 4680 Model Y a Cybertruck Testbed?

[Mrbrock]

Based on what we know on the Cybertruck battery, working backwards leads me to believe the 4680 MY AWD was an engineering testbed for the Cybertruck. Usable battery on the MY is estimated to be 67.5kwh. Usable on the CT is around 130. 2x67.5=135. Using 2x MY 4680 400v batteries gets you to 800V. Seems awfully coincidental to me. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a tear down of the CT battery show it is essentially 2 of the MY units wired together.

 

[scottf200]

Certainly they were testing those Gen 1 4680s on the bench as well as in test mules. Certainly some in TMYs.

The phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two events or variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them.

 

[Mrbrock]

Certainly they were testing those Gen 1 4680s on the bench as well as in test mules. Certainly some in TMYs.

It wasn’t so much individual cells vs overall pack architecture. Get some real world data.

 

[terranx]

They certainly share some similarities. 4680 based structural battery pack. But it might be coincidence.

 

[ewoodrick]

Based on what we know on the Cybertruck battery, working backwards leads me to believe the 4680 MY AWD was an engineering testbed for the Cybertruck. Usable battery on the MY is estimated to be 67.5kwh. Usable on the CT is around 130. 2x67.5=135. Using 2x MY 4680 400v batteries gets you to 800V. Seems awfully coincidental to me. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a tear down of the CT battery show it is essentially 2 of the MY units wired together.

Not really sure why this would be surprising, since basically EVERYTHING Tesla is doing is built on the last vehicle.

Ford, GM, Stellantis are the same, except theirs is built upon 1950s vehicles. (Tesla is learning fresh)

 

[Earl]

Not really sure why this would be surprising, since basically EVERYTHING Tesla is doing is built on the last vehicle.

Ford, GM, Stellantis are the same, except theirs is built upon 1950s vehicles. (Tesla is learning fresh)

Yep. Impact (EV1 prototype) was testbed for T-zero Pb-A which was testbed for T-zero Li-ion which was testbed for Roadster 1.0 which was testbed for Roadster 1.5 which was testbed for Roadster 2.0 which was testbed for Roadster 3.0 which was testbed for Model S . . .

 

[advocate8]

It seems like an excessive cost for something they generally do well anyway, setting up the assembly line for that version of the MY and cranking them out. I drove a rented one BtW for I dunno, 10 days and it was perfectly acceptable if not great re: range, even though I put more than 1500 miles on it in that period, and was a solid car.
Do we at this point have anything to indicate the 4680s are IRL significantly improved over the initial versions? I haven’t been trying to sift the wheat from chafe on YouTube and X on the 4680 like I did prior to the first IRL cars getting tested.
My gut is telling me they aren’t really any better in a serious way despite the investor thread having seemingly accepted as fact they are now much much better.

 

[terranx]

despite the investor thread having seemingly accepted as fact they are now much much better.

Those guys are a special class of crazy

 

[vcor]

My understanding is the 4680 cells used in the Y last year were Gen-1. The Cybertruck uses Gen-2, which is about 5% more energy dense. I expect there will be further small improvements in the 4680 design in the coming years, but nothing dramatic. So even though the Cybertruck is about twice the kWh in capacity, Tesla doesn't have to use as many cells, and the pack can be lighter, which helps with range.

As for the Cybertruck pack design, it doesn't look like the Model Y design (to me, looking at photos), so the pack itself in the Model Y was not a testbed for the pack.

 

[kpanda17]

Based on what we know on the Cybertruck battery, working backwards leads me to believe the 4680 MY AWD was an engineering testbed for the Cybertruck. Usable battery on the MY is estimated to be 67.5kwh. Usable on the CT is around 130. 2x67.5=135. Using 2x MY 4680 400v batteries gets you to 800V. Seems awfully coincidental to me. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a tear down of the CT battery show it is essentially 2 of the MY units wired together.

so really, the orig MY RWD Austin was the testbed...you have to respect Elon's brilliance
now lets get the 4680s to gen 3 and 4 for higher energy density and then spread them out through the entire Tesla lineup, get rid of China manuf batteries for Tesla

 

[ewoodrick]

so really, the orig MY RWD Austin was the testbed...you have to respect Elon's brilliance
now lets get the 4680s to gen 3 and 4 for higher energy density and then spread them out through the entire Tesla lineup, get rid of China manuf batteries for Tesla

Is your ICE using the same engine as a 1918 ICE? I doubt it. Every freaking generation of everything is a "testbed" for the next.

Calling it a beta is just..... I'm stopping there.

 

[advocate8]

so really, the orig MY RWD Austin was the testbed...you have to respect Elon's brilliance
now lets get the 4680s to gen 3 and 4 for higher energy density and then spread them out through the entire Tesla lineup, get rid of China manuf batteries for Tesla

they remain unlikely to ever be better than smaller form factor of essentially identical chemistry and structure. Thermodynamics say so.
There was far too much hype initially and people are still buying it.
I buy that Tesla can save money by making batteries in house. But there isn’t any magic to their performance potential.
Only telsa investors have cause to get excited about 4680s.

 

[Mrbrock]

they remain unlikely to ever be better than smaller form factor of essentially identical chemistry and structure. Thermodynamics say so.
There was far too much hype initially and people are still buying it.
I buy that Tesla can save money by making batteries in house. But there isn’t any magic to their performance potential.
Only telsa investors have cause to get excited about 4680s.

Dry electrode has potential to make them slightly better in terms of energy density but there will always be performance issues related to thermodynamics. And some new chemistry will come that will be better anyways.