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Interesting comments on the body materials costing too much and weighing too much. Wonder why/how that is. Plus Sandy seemed really puzzled about the existence of some of the panels.
But....how long does one wait.....the Mod S/X still has some QC issues.He has more knowledge of cars and their manufacture in one fingernail than most engineers have in their whole body.
I must wonder if Musk’s comments on tolerances and manufacturing needing to become so good that if a customer thinks they measure a panal gap outside of spec their tape measure is wrong is because he got an early look at this video.
I am suddenly not upset about waiting longer and letting Tesla train their hundreds of new hires and improve assembly further.
But....how long does one wait.....the Mod S/X still has some QC issues.
I always wondered where all the R&D money for new car models was going. I had started to assume R&D was mostly accounting fraud to avoid taxes. I tihnk you are correct, companies like Munro were not used by Tesla. As Tesla had such bad experiences with the auto industry in general, such as;... They [Tesla] seemed to be starting at ground zero. Auto companies use firms like Munro or internal resources to solve these issues before production. That takes time and with Tesla's aggressive time table there is no room for processes like this.
I always wondered where all the R&D money for new car models was going. I had started to assume R&D was mostly accounting fraud to avoid taxes. I tihnk you are correct, companies like Munro were not used by Tesla. As Tesla had such bad experiences with the auto industry in general, such as;
2003-2008 Elon and Marc Tarpenning comment how auto suppliers won't even talk with them, how transmission company in court defense said anyone in auto industry knew that the transmission company was not expected to deliver a working product the first time, this was with Roadster, and then the transmission company was suing for loss of future business as Tesla canceled contract. GBTs improvements in electronics allowed Tesla to drop 2 speed and go to 1 speed.
Henri Fiskers $30 million design for Model S which Tesla just threw out it was so bad (Fisker then went on to build Karma?). Then Tesla hired Hans - great move.
Seems Elon/Tesla only good experience was with Lotus - which might partial explain the great suspension. So Tesla organization didn't see much help coming from auto sector. Aside from Fremont factory purchased from Toyota. Also Tesla was main supplier for both Toyota electric RAV4 2nd generation and Merc SMART car, also 2nd generation. Both companies had bought $50 million in stock and both companies cashed out for short term profits and now both companies are producing the 3rd generation of those products. Go figure.
Bob Lutz always thought Tesla spending $ 5 billion to make laptop batteries (which many suppliers already made) was really really stupid. I think Bob has tried to startup 3 car/truck companies in the last decade (one with Fisker) and no great success yet.
Back to R&D
Tesla R&D expenses from 2010 - 2016 = 7 years and the TOTAL <$5 billion. [cars, batteries, storage]
GM R&D 2015-2016-2017 = $20 billion
This is R&D for 2015
VW $15.3 billion
Toyota $9.2 billion
Daimler $7.6 billion
GM $7.4 billion
Ford $6.9 billion
Honda $5.5 billion
BMW $5.5 billion
Nissan $4.6 billion
Denso $3.6 billion
FCA $3.4 billion
I just don't see the shift to electrification being reflected in R&D - OR they sure aren't getting results. Was most of that money spent on Munro type consultants?
So WHY no real competitor to either the Model S and Model X IF they are so simple to make and such "flawed vehicles" that most any auto company could improve and build cheaper. Model S has about 25% market share, right?
WHY was the Bolt such a let down? WHY the Leaf such a let down? Where are the Model 3 competitors?
I had half expected Tesla to become the skate board supplier to the auto industry. That certainly hasn't happened. Toyota and Merc could have easily kept working with Tesla. So disruption seems to continue. Interesting times. I think Tesla crew will figure it out. That is my bet.
Model 3 was designed to have AWD in mind with minimal change to the suspension only. There was an early underbelly teardown video that showed this.More concerning is the poor/irrational/heavy design stuff which although buried will reflect on profits.
Model 3 was designed to have AWD in mind with minimal change to the suspension only. There was an early underbelly teardown video that showed this.
The heartening thing about this thread is the 'difficult/important' stuff is so good.
The assembly issues can most probably be addressed over time (and who will actually notice stuff like this buried in the car?). The issue with panel gaps seems overblown as most people seem happy or don't really notice. And it will improve....
More concerning is the poor/irrational/heavy design stuff which although buried will reflect on profits.
For me the most disappointing part of the M3 saga is that such poor UI was ever let out into the wild - even if much can be addressed with OTA upgrades.
They specifically the upper A arm was over engineered for RWD car. It's perfect fit for AWD car.Poor design is not needed for AWD. It is good they built it for other options without any design changes. The problem is with the poor design the cost per unit will make it more difficult to sell competitively and make a profit. There are only so many greenies that will buy anything available Very soon the car will have to regular buyers who want the best car they can buy for the dollars they spend. The competition is very strong in that market.