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This article uses data from 1977 - 1996 and a few from 1999, 2002. So 15-45 year old material.
AND this is civil engineering - for bridges, building. Doesn't seem to relevant to me.
Aircraft or Rocket or even transportation vehicles would seem to be much much more relevant, right?
Aluminium and adhesives used a long time in aircraft, right?

side note: expected life for steel reinforced concrete - just 50 years.
problem starts with moisture getting to the steel causing rust. steel to rust is a 50x expansion so you then get cracking and more water and more rust - you get the idea. Add freezing of the water, you know what happens, right? Now if no freezing and in a dry climate (such as parts of California) steel reinforced concrete might make 100 years. Some Roman (not steel reinforced) concrete using very fine volcanic dust to microscopically fill in voids has lasted around 2,000 years.
The auto industry is new to hybrid FRP/steel parts, but I don't see why they wouldn't work in this application.

https://paginas.fe.up.pt/~irf/Proceedings_IRF2016/data/papers/6102.pdf

Granted, that may not be what the a-arms are, but they could be, especially since it's Tesla we're talking about.
 
The auto industry is new to hybrid FRP/steel parts, but I don't see why they wouldn't work in this application.

https://paginas.fe.up.pt/~irf/Proceedings_IRF2016/data/papers/6102.pdf

Granted, that may not be what the a-arms are, but they could be, especially since it's Tesla we're talking about.
YES, and thank you omgwtffbyobbq for such a great data sheet!

Hate acronyms when they hinder communication.
cfrp, gfrp Here is another informative data sheet:
How do GFRP and CFRP compare?


Post Script: what is this acronym? omgwtfbyobbq - got the first half;
oh my god what the f---

Post, Post Script: recommended internet searches
gfrp cfrp
3D printing composites
 
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Some are obvious just from pictures. Look at what people have been posting on the forum. Visual data is still data, and more than a single point at that.
anecdotal data is just that, anecdotal; and not more than a point or two without some kind of analysis, right?
random quality? or an improving trend? or a declining trend?
Sorry for my poor communications. I didn't mean to complain about mere data points. analysis? trends? we shall see.
 
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So he's saying, if Tesla designed it, but got someone else to build it (Magna-Steyr or whomever kinda like Apple design, but Foxconn builds), then Tesla would mop the floor. This sounds like what they're going to do with the Semi.
 
As far as I can tell they only looked at one car. In science you need multiple data points before you can make a valid claim... you would never take one stream sample or one air sample and claim it to be valid. Measuring one car, at the very beginning of production, says very little about the cars delivered today in regards to panel gaps. Since fit and finish is fairly easy to measure and you don't have to take the car apart to do it, I would like them to measure a sample of dozens of cars from recent production before making a claim about build quality.
 
As far as I can tell they only looked at one car. In science you need multiple data points before you can make a valid claim... you would never take one stream sample or one air sample and claim it to be valid. Measuring one car, at the very beginning of production, says very little about the cars delivered today in regards to panel gaps. Since fit and finish is fairly easy to measure and you don't have to take the car apart to do it, I would like them to measure a sample of dozens of cars from recent production before making a claim about build quality.

This is true where it concerns Tesla, but generally not where cars from other manufacturers are concerned.

From the perspective of Mr. Munro and company, the Model 3 they analyzed is representative of what they think Model 3 will be for the next few years. Most automotive products are fairly static during their generational lifecycle. Tesla products are not. During the video, the people laugh when they read Elon's message about making the Model 3's tolerances the best in the industry. Their perspective is that the product is "locked in", when in fact it is evolving.

I don't know if Mr. Munro will conduct another analysis next year. He may be surprised at the differences between a Model 3 from early this year, and a Model 3 from next year.
 
I watched the episode in it's entirety and overall I liked it. The key note that he says is that platform and skateboard design are unmatched. The rest of the car he hated due to fit and finish issues. This bodes well for Tesla, Tesla does not make changes based on model year. Tesla improves their cars as soon as the new part is ready to go into production and workers can be trained in time. I expected the Model 3 to be perfected by the end of the year or when the dual motor is put into production. The biggest takeaway is that the BMS is so advanced that the difference between the batteries is in MV and he expected that the battery will last for 400000 miles plus.
 
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worth watching -- at least at accelerated speed (thank you youtube). everyone except Sandy is annoying to listen to and they add only negative value to the discussions.

Bottom-line: Munro is totally wowed by the circuit boards and the battery and its BMS and the suspension.

"According to Munro, prior to tearing down the Model 3, he believed that LG’s battery modules used in the Chevy Bolt EV are the best in the industry. Tesla’s batteries, however, are on a completely new level. Munro was particularly impressed with the differential between each one of the Model 3’s battery blocks. . . . We went through there, and the difference was .2 milliamps. Holy, nobody can balance batteries that close. Nobody. Nobody’s ever done that,” Munro said." Tesla Model 3 modules are comparable to F-35 flight controller, says expert

"Munro also noted that the suspension for the Model 3 was excellent. The teardown specialist went so far as to state that the person who designed the car’s suspension could easily be an “F1 prince.”"

Munro said that his customers so far are from germany, china, japan, Taiwan and only one customer in the US and an "unlikely" customer -- perhaps its Tesla.

His criticisms, primarily of the heavy and poorly designed body sounded plausible, Most of the other criticism on fit and finish etc. are hopefully remedied with staff training and line tweaks.
 
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I watched the episode in it's entirety and overall I liked it. The key note that he says is that platform and skateboard design are unmatched. The rest of the car he hated due to fit and finish issues. This bodes well for Tesla, Tesla does not make changes based on model year. Tesla improves their cars as soon as the new part is ready to go into production and workers can be trained in time. I expected the Model 3 to be perfected by the end of the year or when the dual motor is put into production. The biggest takeaway is that the BMS is so advanced that the difference between the batteries is in MV and he expected that the battery will last for 400000 miles plus.

The body issues are not just fit and finish. There is some very poor design issues making them difficult to assemble and expensive. No tweaking of the line will fix that.
 
This video was quite interesting. Sandy Monro seems extremely experienced and knowledgeable, and offered what seemed like objective comments. (Unfortunately, Monro is not as articulate as I'd have liked. He tends to speak in shorthand and jargon, which made some comments difficult to parse.) His comments reinforce my growing sense that Tesla's real core expertise (battery pack, drive train, electronic controls) are well done by industry standards, but that their car manufacturing expertise is sorely lacking. Makes me wonder if they tried hard enough to hire enough of the right people with the expertise to design and build both the factory and the car. Or if they hired a consultant (like Monro, perhaps) to help them optimize the body design and the manufacturing line. Did Tesla hire the wrong folks? Not enough? Or try to do all of it from ground up with bright young "Turks" who worked only from first principles and not enough experience.

It was pleasing to hear Monro praise the handling -- he seems to think the chassis design works well, even if he was unsure why certain parts were made they way they are (such as the upper control arms he discussed).
 
Elon has talked in the past about reducing the wiring in an EV. Now that I have seen all the cables on a wall in a collection in the video, I can well understand why.

As for the criticism leveled at Tesla, I'm sure there is some merit. I also am not concerned. Tesla will continue to improve in those areas rapidly, are already better than the Model S which is already pretty good, and most importantly, outstanding in the areas that matter to me.
...

I wonder if Monro ever did a similar tear-down and analysis of Model S. Anyone know? And if Model S has been optimized for manufacturing the way they talked about doing it for Model 3.
 
I wonder if Monro ever did a similar tear-down and analysis of Model S. Anyone know? And if Model S has been optimized for manufacturing the way they talked about doing it for Model 3.

The S is not a highly mass produced car so I doubt the info would be any value to the competition. They mentioned it was more like coach building with lots of hand assembly and a price level that allows extra cost In the design.
 
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This video was quite interesting. Sandy Monro seems extremely experienced and knowledgeable, and offered what seemed like objective comments. (Unfortunately, Monro is not as articulate as I'd have liked. He tends to speak in shorthand and jargon, which made some comments difficult to parse.) His comments reinforce my growing sense that Tesla's real core expertise (battery pack, drive train, electronic controls) are well done by industry standards, but that their car manufacturing expertise is sorely lacking. Makes me wonder if they tried hard enough to hire enough of the right people with the expertise to design and build both the factory and the car. Or if they hired a consultant (like Monro, perhaps) to help them optimize the body design and the manufacturing line. Did Tesla hire the wrong folks? Not enough? Or try to do all of it from ground up with bright young "Turks" who worked only from first principles and not enough experience.

It was pleasing to hear Monro praise the handling -- he seems to think the chassis design works well, even if he was unsure why certain parts were made they way they are (such as the upper control arms he discussed).

It is often very difficult to have a mix of experienced engineers work with new text book engineers. Both groups bring good ideas but often can not work together. The new guys seem to have gotten the new stuff to work but ignored a 100 years of mass production experience.