Watching people making poor car choices

[run-the-joules]

They think it’s a $700 monthly payment which is not true if you factor in all the incentives and credits.

Errr... it is in fact still true if they finance the amount over the duration that ends in a $700/mo payment. The credits and incentives don’t directly affect the Tesla payment (unless you’re leasing in which case if you aren’t buying for “business” use you’re probably not worrying about the financial sense of it anyway). Some might put money back in their pocket after purchase, which can be spent on said payment, though.

(Yes, this is pedantic, but the fact that Tesla used to heavily obfuscate the actual cost of the car and still makes it a secondary item bothers me)

 

[Plagued]

The cost savings also assume you're not already running an EV. You could easily be moving from a cheaper EV, with cheaper monthly payments and cheaper insurance. In the UK the price of the model 3 hits luxury vehicle tax, (unlike the other more basic brands) so it costs more to tax than a smelly diesel.
Have to disagree with the OP, the model 3 is a great car but it's not right for everyone, and someone who doesn't but one by choice is neither inferior or foolish.

 

[MXWing]

Errr... it is in fact still true if they finance the amount over the duration that ends in a $700/mo payment. The credits and incentives don’t directly affect the Tesla payment (unless you’re leasing in which case if you aren’t buying for “business” use you’re probably not worrying about the financial sense of it anyway). Some might put money back in their pocket after purchase, which can be spent on said payment, though.

(Yes, this is pedantic, but the fact that Tesla used to heavily obfuscate the actual cost of the car and still makes it a secondary item bothers me)

The average person is absolutely horrific at math and planning - so I have to begrudgingly admit a 3 is out of their range just because of this.

In theory you should just be able to advance yourself 7000 from an account and pay yourself back from the incentives keeping your payment low.

The Model 3 also did not appear overnight either. If you set aside $100 since the day it was announced per month, you would have knocked off 4K by now from the principle making the 3 far easier to finance.

For many people, income is not the issue, management is. I often see threads mostly on FB asking if X income is sufficient for a Model 3.

The questions and responses like that make me relieved I can slap the hell out of my own children (and friends) when they say stupid *sugar* like that or anything else of the sort to me.
Income is one variable. Debt is another variable. Assets is another variable. Expenses is another variable.

Bit off tangent but we’ve covered why some people say they can’t make the payments.

The main thesis remains true though - I question the judgment and style of those who spend 35K on an EV and it isn’t a Model 3.

I have heard “they don’t like the look of the Model 3” thrown around.

Bull *sugar*. Between the Model 3 and the i3 - one is Elizabeth Hurley and the other is Rosie O Donnell.

 

[ElectricLee]

Bull *sugar*. Between the Model 3 and the i3 - one is Elizabeth Hurley and the other is Rosie O Donnell.

Good thing I picked Elizabeth, she is hot.

 

[brianman]

choices .... None of them were better or worse than the choices anybody else made

Disagree. Some choices are objectively bad ones.

That doesn't mean the people making those choices are bad or lesser, but rather a lack of information, or incorrect information, or availability issues, or urgency issues, or bias, etc.

As an example, buying a Hummer for its fuel economy is an objectively bad choice.

 

[ElectricLee]

The average person is absolutely horrific at math and planning - so I have to begrudgingly admit a 3 is out of their range just because of this.

That is so true, too bad Financial Fit is not taught is school for kids.

The average person keeps refinancing their homes and end up paying double the purchase price of their primary home over time.

I used the power of inflation to my advantage and paid 60% of my purchase price of my primary home in 15 years. I bought 4 homes long time ago and sold 3 in a high market to pay off the first home in full. Total cost after paying capital gains and other taxes made my total payments for my own home over the 15 years is about 60% of the purchase price. Now I have the deed and only pay for property taxes on a yearly bases.

 

[eustachio]

I think some people make an ill informed choice. I include myself in that category

We moved to the Bay Area to a rental apartment that had no charging options last September, and bought a Prius. Had I researched or known someone with a Tesla, I'd have made a different choice.

Planning to buy a M3 soon, and I'll go out of my way to clarify the charging options, TCO, etc to anyone who will listen.

 

[St3LR]

If Elon Musk chimed in on this thread under a fake account to hide his identity he might say:

“Its basically crazy to buy any other car but a Tesla”

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Robotaxi fleet on this thread

Heck, if I believe the Robotaxi fleet promises I'd consider it crazy to buy any car including a Tesla. If I own a car I'm not going to loan it out for drunks to vomit in - I'll take advantage of one of the FSD fleet and rent a car cheap when I need a ride (and somewhere to vomit?). Convert my garage into extra living space!!

 

[Kilotango74]

The sense of superiority many people have on this forum is truly disappointing. That’s part of the reason why I never owned a Harley during my years of riding; I never wanted to be associated with a group of people who thought themselves better than others because of what they chose to ride. Apparently I now find myself in a similar group.

People make their own choices for their own reasons, and we don’t always agree with them. That doesn’t make their choice better or worse than ours, just different.

Yet you partly based your reasoning on not owning a Harley because of what other owners thought of themselves? Isn't that kinda the same thing. If your not going to buy a Harley it should be cause you don't like the bike.......not about how others feel...

 

[Kilotango74]

Thank goodness for all those abundant hydrocarbons generating electrons.

Do you realize how many 6 and 7 year old slave miners in the Congo - toiling daily with their bare hands mind you -
are picking cobalt-containing heterogenite stones for Elon's batteries ?

Blood Cobalt.

Leonardo DiCaprio should make a film....

Wait.....I thought this was a Tesla forum.....how many......you tell me Leonardo.
Cobalt is also used in the computer you used to type your post....just saying. Not to mention your recycling this crap from your other posts....like word for word.
snippiness
Cobalt is also found in Australia, Canada, Zambia and Brazil. Panasonic and Tesla are also working towards producing cobalt free batteries.
Just so you know coal isn't the only way to produce electricity....

 

[Kilotango74]

They think it’s a $700 monthly payment which is not true if you factor in all the incentives and credits.

How do you factor in tax incentives and rebates into a car loan. Unless you are refinancing when you get that money it doesn't effect your monthly payment in the least. Money in the bank in the future doesn't effect money going out in the present.

 

[MXWing]

How do you factor in tax incentives and rebates into a car loan. Unless you are refinancing when you get that money it doesn't effect your monthly payment in the least. Money in the bank in the future doesn't effect money going out in the present.

You should have accounts, vacation funds, college savings, etc that should total up to any rebates and tax incentives right?

You can "borrow" against those accounts when purchasing the car.

Return funds as you get them.

Refinancing is not a bad option for auto as they don't incur the same friction and transaction costs that a mortgage would entail.

 

[alexGS]

Don’t laugh but one of the reasons we leaned away from an S was the size of the car and our garage. It would fit but would be really tight. Frankly I would probably just park it outside in my leafs spot and put the leaf in the garage.

I’m not laughing at all, I’m smiling in agreement

The Model S is well-established here in New Zealand, both used and new (inventory) models available. The Model 3 isn’t available yet. The ‘base’ S brand-new falls within what I was prepared to spend (same money would buy a used P90D etc.) Anyway, I test-drove an S in my local area and decided it was too large for me; driving it felt like a mission rather than an extension of myself. It was better-behaved (better handling) than my old (2007) Mercedes CLS, but just as large, and I sold that car for that very reason. My Tesla is to be a long-term companion.

Then I sat in the (LHD, not driveable) Model 3 demonstrator in the only NZ Tesla showroom, and I immediately knew this is the car for me. It feels so different with its small steering wheel, low dashboard, and relative simplicity. If it is teamed with a firm European-style ride, I’m sure we will get along well.

In a few weeks I’ll get the chance to order at last - feels strange to do this having not actually driven a Model 3, but I’m sure others have taken this risk too!

I only hope not to be ‘rejected’ by a few Model S owners (online) who expressed concern in discussion of ‘how to handle the large influx of new Tesla owners due to the Model 3’s cheaper price’. I pointed out that the price isn’t really much different, either model is an expensive new car compared to the usual car choices made in NZ. The buyer of a Model 3 is surely similar to the buyer of a Model S and will be just as motivated/excited

So, respecting the choice made by others is important at all levels.

-Alex

 

[alexGS]

In the UK the price of the model 3 hits luxury vehicle tax, (unlike the other more basic brands) so it costs more to tax than a smelly diesel.

Yeah - that’s a bugger (as we’d say in NZ), I reckon that £40,000 threshold of ‘luxury’ needs a re-think. It should cover Rolls-Royce and Pagani, but not something as functional as a Tesla where the money is paying for the engineering, rather than ‘luxury’.

-Alex

 

[banned-66611]

When the Model 3 is selling like hot cakes and most of the staff has a Tesla Model 3 in the office and in the neighborhood. Its sad to see that “One” family choosing a lesser EV at the same 39K price level before tax credits.

The M3 is rather expensive in the UK, but there are other reasons why I decided not to get one.

The main one is that it's too small. You have to stoop right down to get in and then climb back out again. Much prefer the CUV/SUV shape where the seat is high up and you just slide easily.

Also the boot is very small (er... the trump in American). It's deep but the opening is tiny and low, so for stuff like IKEA boxes or moving boxes it's a pain.

Lack of Android Auto is a big deal too.

 

[EdisonDrvr]

Any EV is better than ICE garbage. The sooner we all make the switch to cleaner tech the better. It looks gross to see old tech cars with essentially smoke stacks sticking out the back spewing out pollution. Not acceptable in 2019

 

[hydro 481]

Maybe they got a decent lease deal on the EV?

 

[RScottyL]

That Kia Niro EV looks alright - to me the Tesla is superior, but to buyers with different criteria the Kia might be a better choice.

Kia doesn't appear to be too bad of a car brand, however, I do not like their big logo all over everything! If they can change their logo, their cars would look alot better!

 

[Knightshade]

Any EV is better than ICE garbage. The sooner we all make the switch to cleaner tech the better. It looks gross to see old tech cars with essentially smoke stacks sticking out the back spewing out pollution. Not acceptable in 2019

At current battery production levels it's basically impossible to replace ~98% of new cars sold each year.

Even with the most optimistic new battery factory projections, the vast majority of new cars sold in even 5-10 years from now still won't be BEVs because the capacity simply will not exist to make over 85 million new EVs a year (roughly how many new cars were sold in 2018 a number that keeps growing with the population).

 

[afadeev]

Any EV is better than ICE garbage. The sooner we all make the switch to cleaner tech the better. It looks gross to see old tech cars with essentially smoke stacks sticking out the back spewing out pollution. Not acceptable in 2019

I hope you realize that EVs are only "locally" cleaner.

In the US, only 17% if electricity generation sources are renewables, the other 83% are fossil fuels and nuclear:
What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

It's ironic that your and my EVs are 83% "essentially smoke stacks sticking out the back spewing out pollution". The stack is simply a bit relocated from your car's tail end, that's about it !

That's the reality in 2019.

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