GM connection mentioned in the article:
https://uwaterloo.ca/stories/waterloo-researcher-leading-charge-next-generation-battery
https://uwaterloo.ca/stories/waterloo-researcher-leading-charge-next-generation-battery
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Waterloo’s silicon battery technology promises a 40 to 60 per cent increase in energy
- Thread starter Ktowntslafan
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I'm no chemical engineer...so would love to get some feedback from people in the know. This SOUNDS like a significant breakthrough that will likely benefit only GM in the auto sector. Agree/disagree?
Yes, indeed! I just invented a new vapor battery, in which the anode, cathode and electrolyte are all vapor! The charge rate is great, the energy density in Wh/kg is great, the only problem is that while it is very light, it's actually very large. Actually the other problem is that it's hard to solder the contacts on to it.
Fair to say you are sceptical?
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ditto?
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Li-ion Batteries Keep Improving, But for What Application? - IEEE Spectrum
I don't see why it would only benefit GM. Tesla has started using silicon in their 90kWh battery. Silicon anodes are typically plagued by short lifespan. If their research actually materializes as a viable product, I assume it would help Tesla, or anyone else, using silicon in the anode.
July 17, 2015
The energy density improvement is possible without the need to increase the physical size of the battery pack. That’s because the lithium-ion battery cells now uses silicon for part of its anode, Musk said. Lithium-ion battery cells typically use graphite for anode.Lots of research has looked into the benefit of using silicon for the anode because silicon can hold a lot more lithium ions. But it also can expand so much that it fractures and becomes unstable. Tesla uses Panasonic’s lithium-ion cells.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2015/07/17/why-tesla-rolls-out-better-ev-batteries/
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The energy density improvement is possible without the need to increase the physical size of the battery pack. That’s because the lithium-ion battery cells now uses silicon for part of its anode, Musk said. Lithium-ion battery cells typically use graphite for anode.Lots of research has looked into the benefit of using silicon for the anode because silicon can hold a lot more lithium ions. But it also can expand so much that it fractures and becomes unstable. Tesla uses Panasonic’s lithium-ion cells.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2015/07/17/why-tesla-rolls-out-better-ev-batteries/
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The article references a partnership of sorts between GM and the research being performed at Waterloo...so I'm assuming GM has first dibs. Does anyone have more info?
Enquiring minds want to know if this silicon anode technology is part of the LG Chem cells that will starting being made next year for the Chevy Bolt and other "200-mile" cars. That could explain how they are managing to tuck ~60 kWh into a smaller car without using the Tesla/Panasonic NCA chemistry. I think that article about the Waterloo work also suggests that it could see commercial use as soon as next year.... Any licensing preferences that GM may or may not have from assisting on this work could also be part of the explanation for why GM is only paying $145 per kWh when other LG customers are apparently paying more.
Or not.
Or not.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
It must be time for the daily revolutionary breakthrough in batteries-- that will never make it past the lab.
Consider that the battery has been around about the same time as the internal combustion engine. When was the last ICE revolution that doubled horsepower while halving fuel consumption?
Progress will be steady and incremental. There's no miracles to be had here.
Consider that the battery has been around about the same time as the internal combustion engine. When was the last ICE revolution that doubled horsepower while halving fuel consumption?
Progress will be steady and incremental. There's no miracles to be had here.
artsci
Sponsor
I'm always suspicious of this kind of press release science. When they have a working battery in a working car I'll become a believer. For now it's all claims without much proof in the real world. But more power to them.
Also, It is patented...and it's not clear by who. So the announcement may help some companies...and not others.
From what I've read because silicon expands massively when it absorbs lithium ions (actually it can't be the silicon atoms, it must be the crystalline structure), anodes with high levels of silicon have a short life expectancy. The Panasonic batteries with some silicon have about as much as they can handle before the anodes start getting fragile. It may be possible to come up with an anode the is flexible enough to expand and contract many thousands of times before failure. But like many in this thread have said, I want to see it working in the real world first. I also want to see it working for some period of time. A battery that can only be charged a few times before failure isn't very useful for a frequent charging application.
“The economical flash heat treatment creates uniquely structured silicon anode materials that deliver extended cycle life to more than 2000 cycles with increased energy capacity of the battery,” said Professor Chen.
"More than 2000 cycles" is significantly better then "a few times". Charging daily, this would suggest a lifespan of 5.5 years at a minimum. Do I have that right?
The original article linked above was written by a journalist who didn't know a lot about the subject. Here's the actual paper:
Evidence of covalent synergy in silicon-sulfur-graphene yielding highly efficient and long-life lithium-ion batteries : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group
Evidence of covalent synergy in silicon-sulfur-graphene yielding highly efficient and long-life lithium-ion batteries : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group
brucet999
Active Member
They claim more than 2,000 charge cycles. If a daily driver, charging, say, 5 days a week, 50 weeks per year, it should last about 8 years.
Hmmmm, where have I heard that lifespan before?
Hmmmm, where have I heard that lifespan before?
University of Waterloo shopping 'next generation' silicon battery
University of Waterloo shopping silicon battery | News | Tech
Is it ground breaking if you are "shopping" it?
University of Waterloo shopping silicon battery | News | Tech
Is it ground breaking if you are "shopping" it?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I'll quote Elon Musk on this, yet another, breakthrough battery claim:
“My top advice really for anyone who says they’ve got some breakthrough battery technology is please send us a sample cell, okay. Don’t send us PowerPoint, okay, just send us one cell that works with all appropriate caveats, that would be great.”
“My top advice really for anyone who says they’ve got some breakthrough battery technology is please send us a sample cell, okay. Don’t send us PowerPoint, okay, just send us one cell that works with all appropriate caveats, that would be great.”
If you want to be pedantic, batteries existed long before the internal combustion engine. They even predate railroads.
However, lithium batteries first became available for large-scale commercial applications only in the late 90-s. It took them nearly 30 years to get there - the first Li-Ion cells were developed in early 70-s!
Batter. Development. Is. Hard.
However, we do know that the current battery technology is far from optimal - there are laboratory samples that easily have 3-4 more energy density, but that are not viable because of rapid degradation or chemical instability. Is it a stretch to believe that somebody managed to find a way to move technology from lab to actual production?
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