diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes, that is my experience as well. FSD will downgrade to AP when it cannot work. But I still like to take over just to be safe.
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Waymo
- Thread starter Daniel in SD
- Start date
Yes, that is my experience as well. FSD will downgrade to AP when it cannot work. But I still like to take over just to be safe.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
FYI, here are the time stamps to the Waymo video if anyone wants to skip to a specific scenario instead of watching the entire video:
0:00 Starting recording.
0:55 Starting the ride.
1:35 Speed bump.
2:26 Passing a double parked truck.
3:41 Passing a double parked Fedex truck.
3:51 Buckle up warning when I switched from the right seat to the middle seat.
5:51 Unprotected left turn to Sunset Blvd, speed limit 30mph.
6:18 Passing a yellow light.
8:16 Left lane change to pass a bus.
10:07 Right turn followed by an immediate left turn.
13:31 Slowing down at a yellow light.
18:01 Lane merging with heavy traffic.
19:58 Sharp right turn.
20:52 Honked by a car behind.
25:48 Yielding to a truck pulling out.
26:21 Speed bump.
26:07 Unprotected left turn.
26:49 Unprotected left turn with oncoming traffic.
31:18 Left lane change to keep away from a pedestrian.
31:32 Slowing down for a vehicle turning left.
32:25 Passing a police car dealing with a car accident.
36:00 Unprotected left turn with oncoming traffic.
36:12 Announcement of arriving shortly.
36:59 Steep uphill street.
37:28 Arrival.
38:15 Driving away.
0:00 Starting recording.
0:55 Starting the ride.
1:35 Speed bump.
2:26 Passing a double parked truck.
3:41 Passing a double parked Fedex truck.
3:51 Buckle up warning when I switched from the right seat to the middle seat.
5:51 Unprotected left turn to Sunset Blvd, speed limit 30mph.
6:18 Passing a yellow light.
8:16 Left lane change to pass a bus.
10:07 Right turn followed by an immediate left turn.
13:31 Slowing down at a yellow light.
18:01 Lane merging with heavy traffic.
19:58 Sharp right turn.
20:52 Honked by a car behind.
25:48 Yielding to a truck pulling out.
26:21 Speed bump.
26:07 Unprotected left turn.
26:49 Unprotected left turn with oncoming traffic.
31:18 Left lane change to keep away from a pedestrian.
31:32 Slowing down for a vehicle turning left.
32:25 Passing a police car dealing with a car accident.
36:00 Unprotected left turn with oncoming traffic.
36:12 Announcement of arriving shortly.
36:59 Steep uphill street.
37:28 Arrival.
38:15 Driving away.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’m surprised at how awful it was doing when it got honked at. I got the impression they were a lot more bold than that.
Definitely got a long way to go before they are good enough to be L2!
Of course, they may just have controls to easily make it more assertive.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Waymo is L4. Waymo is not interested in L2. And Waymo can fully drive itself with no human supervision. L2 means the car needs a human driver. Why would Waymo that can drive without a human driver need to be "good enough" to need to a human driver? That makes no sense. The whole point of L4 is that you don't need to be "good enough" for L2 since you don't need a human driver.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I wasn’t saying Waymo needs to be good enough for L2. It was just an observation - I am really looking forward to taking a ride in a Waymo to see where it struggles and see how it “feels.” I was just surprised that it struggled so much in that specific (and extremely simple!) situation.
But to explain the point: Obviously the level of capability required to achieve safe L4 is good enough for L2, if the human using the system as an L2 system is willing to just sit there.
But the human (since they have to accept liability with L2) may be very frustrated by the system or even think it puts them at unnecessary risk (namely from irate drivers). And thus may not find it very useful as an L2 assist.
So it’s a tricky balance. It may be possible to easily adjust the L4 system and convert it to a useful L2, which people want to use. But not clear what impact that would have on safety.
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Does the jittery wheel come from road feedback? If you let go of the wheel on some cars on a bumpy road the wheel will move in that fashion. Our arms absorb this jitter. Maybe the Jaguar has more road feel than a Tesla?
powertoold
Active Member
So you're suggesting that Waymo's steering output is a jittery function.
I'm suggesting that the Jaguar is exhibiting a jittery road feel in response to road imperfections that Waymo is not bothering to dampen. Or possibly that the car's auto-steering motor/belt/whatever isn't designed to tightly grip the wheel and be rock -steady.
I don't see any proof from you that it isn't road-feel, just that you disagree with this hypothesis. So we need someone to ask Waymo/Jaguar then.
powertoold
Active Member
It's very easy to conclude it has nothing to do with the road surface. Just look at the road it's driving on in the video or in Google maps.
This whole thing about steering wheel jitteriness (from road surface roughness) shouldn't be such a visible problem with modern cars.
powertoold
Active Member
FloridaJohn
Member
Looks like a reaction to the road surface to me. You can see the hood react right before the steering wheel.
powertoold
Active Member
Have you watched the video? There are about 100 instances of this.
If y'all's disagree, find me some evidence that road surface roughness can jitter modern steering wheels like shown.
Tesla Fan: OMG Waymo wheel jitters, its because they localize to a hd map
Logic: Wait! before you hit post, wouldn't that mean that every other SDC wheels should also jitter seeing they also localize to a HD map?
Tesla Fan: Uhmmm...leave me alone! the wheel jitters. look at it!
Logic: Wait! before you hit post, wouldn't that mean that every other SDC wheels should also jitter seeing they also localize to a HD map?
Tesla Fan: Uhmmm...leave me alone! the wheel jitters. look at it!
Jaguar I-Pace review
This may be an electric vehicle, but my word this is no milk float. You can take it fairly seriously off-road, or on the track or, okay, on the road. It works everywhere. The only downer is that it’s not a light vehicle, and won’t be with that much battery power. That means in turn that the handling is well tied down at the expense of the ride, which can be jittery at times.
powertoold
Active Member
Doggydogworld
Active Member
powertoold
Active Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
But the anti-Tesla folks here think Waymo has solved FSD !
Waymo HAS solved some ODD of driving. Tesla has solved none.
Pray that Tesla goes driverless in Elon's tunnels, then you can also say Tesla has solved some ODD of driving.
Until then its still zip, nada, nil.
I'm just keeping it real.
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