We/I need some regen/discharge tick marks!

[Glamisduner]

Conplete opposite opinion on this. Been using the same kW Output measure on my Spark EV for over 3 years now and its saved me more than 1 time (including once when the rear electeonic brakes got semi stuck on).

It enabled me to easily gauge uphill and downhill terrain when I couldnt visually see the slope myself simoly by understanding my vehicles steady state power requirements and relative speed. Adjusting my driving patterns accordingly when I need or want to hypermile.

Super useful information to have that simply needs an option to be able to turn on.

I fully agree, I use it on my volt DAILY.

Another thing I like to do is pop into neutral to accelerate downhill (when safe to do so) on longer stretches of the freeway. Much more efficient to just roll than using regen to charge back the battery and maintain speed. Guessing I can't do this easily on the 3.

I also like to swap between high and low regen, low regen is a more relaxing experience on the freeway, unless you know your going to need to stop up ahead, where I just pop the volt into low mode to help save my brakes add add back range.

I find I drive less efficient on the freeway with the volt in high regen mode, because to get best efficiency you don't want heavy regen to happen every time you back off the throttle a little. Grated tesla handles this a bit smoother than the volt in low regen mode.

 

[Jedi2155]

I fully agree, I use it on my volt DAILY.

Another thing I like to do is pop into neutral to accelerate downhill (when safe to do so) on longer stretches of the freeway. Much more efficient to just roll than using regen to charge back the battery and maintain speed. Guessing I can't do this easily on the 3.

I also like to swap between high and low regen, low regen is a more relaxing experience on the freeway, unless you know your going to need to stop up ahead, where I just pop the volt into low mode to help save my brakes add add back range.

I find I drive less efficient on the freeway with the volt in high regen mode, because to get best efficiency you don't want heavy regen to happen every time you back off the throttle a little. Grated tesla handles this a bit smoother than the volt in low regen mode.

Pretty sure there is still a neutral position for a Model 3. I'm definitely with you on the being able to switch easily between low and "standard" regen modes to optimize overall driving patterns. I've done as low as 150 Wh/mi on my Spark over long highway distances because of the techniques through available information.

 

[nvx1977]

You can put Model 3 in Neutral via the stalk, but it's pretty unnatural. I just watch the regen/consumption bar and float the accelerator until there's no bar. It's not too hard. Agreed that "coasting" is better than regen for downhills when you're not intending to slow/stop.

 

[Jedi2155]

You can put Model 3 in Neutral via the stalk, but it's pretty unnatural. I just watch the regen/consumption bar and float the accelerator until there's no bar. It's not too hard. Agreed that "coasting" is better than regen for downhills when you're not intending to slow/stop.

Floating the accelerator requires a lot of effort as you constantly have to adjust your foot for changes in the road terrain. This is why I like manual control of the regen.

 

[nvx1977]

Floating the accelerator requires a lot of effort as you constantly have to adjust your foot for changes in the road terrain. This is why I like manual control of the regen.

absent those features, I guess all I'm saying is that there isn't significant hardship for me after driving the car for a while. And people who feel strongly otherwise really need to be using [email protected] where Tesla can have visibility into what people are frustrated with and more importantly, how many people are frustrated by it. They do listen. But they aren't reading this thread.

 

[Jedi2155]

absent those features, I guess all I'm saying is that there isn't significant hardship for me after driving the car for a while. And people who feel strongly otherwise really need to be using [email protected] where Tesla can have visibility into what people are frustrated with and more importantly, how many people are frustrated by it. They do listen. But they aren't reading this thread.

Thanks for providing that detail. I haven't received my Model 3 yet....(delivery set for today...but because contract delays probably later this week), so my experience comes from driving other EVs. I'll be sure to use that feedback form to provide more comprehensive detail when I can provide it.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Floating the accelerator requires a lot of effort as you constantly have to adjust your foot for changes in the road terrain. This is why I like manual control of the regen.

Why are you doing this? You didn't get Cruise Control on your Spark? This really has no applicability to the Bolt or Model 3, which both come with CC standard. Push comes to shove, if you want lots of stability for optimum range you get far more from CC (and play with the Set speed if desired).

Then you set a slower speed. No, slower than that.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Pretty sure there is still a neutral position for a Model 3.

Yes, and I've have literally never used it. It's basically vestigial for it to be there on the gearshift (like the 'D' and 'L' labeling). Tesla calls it Tow Mode, I believe. It's also illegal to neutral coast down hills in a number of states, for very good reason.

 

[Jedi2155]

Yes, and I've have literally never used it. It's basically vestigial for it to be there on the gearshift (like the 'D' and 'L' labeling). Tesla calls it Tow Mode, I believe. It's also illegal to neutral coast down hills in a number of states, for very good reason.

Did not know that, thanks!
Roadshow: Downhill in neutral is illegal and dumb, and a lot of drivers do it – The Mercury News

I rarely did it for the exact reason why its illegal (also why I don't normally use cruise control). Also in automatic cars, it puts unnecessary strain on the torque converters shifting at high speeds to neutral and back. In an EV I'm not so sure about the negatives.

Why are you doing this? You didn't get Cruise Control on your Spark? This really has no applicability to the Bolt or Model 3, which both come with CC standard. Push comes to shove, if you want lots of stability for optimum range you get far more from CC (and play with the Set speed if desired).

Then you set a slower speed. No, slower than that.

I do that to avoid unnecessary regen. I'd rather fluctuate my speed (only when there is no one behind me) than fluctuate my regen. One of my hypermiling techniques I've learned over the years.

 

[nvx1977]

One of my hypermiling techniques I've learned over the years.

My lifetime efficiency, after 5200 miles on Model 3, is currently 193Wh/mi. This is far better than the car-rated efficiency of 242Wh/mi. I don't say this to brag, but rather to point out that for people who want to be efficient, you can do so with this car.

I don't consider myself a hypermiler; I just drive gently most of the time (accelerating like I was going for my driver's license), and reserve gunning it for select situations here and there. It's so easy to get below rated range in Model 3. Actually, at least half of my miles are on EAP, so the AI is pretty efficient too. I also try not to use HVAC when ambient temps are tolerable. I grew up with econoboxes without A/C so my tolerances might be higher than average. Plus I'm from the south where it was always insanely hot. New England is comfortable in the summer.

That's why I don't think you'll really care over time regarding discrete kW numbers in consumption or regen. The efficiency reading and the bar are more than sufficient to guide you to efficient driving.

 

[ℬête Noire]

That's why I don't think you'll really care over time regarding discrete kW numbers in consumption or regen. The efficiency reading and the bar are more than sufficient to guide you to efficient driving.

So much this. Between e CC (that you can easy the speed up and down on if you're playing the hypermile game), the regen round-trip efficiency being so high (both the Bolt and the Model 3 have very high efficiency here, the M3 gets the edge at highway speeds because of the low Cd), and the bar being very clear about when you're nearing and then flipping to regen, and the battery not having less than 100mi of range (a lot less for the Volt).

The magnitude of the kW number in the moment doesn't even really mean much by itself anyway, you need to do repeatedly do the calculation using your speed to know the Wh/mi and then find the local minimum of that.....which BTW will always be lower until you've slowed to about 25mph.

P.S. At highway speeds in the Bolt you don't even use regen until your downslope is about 4% grade or higher. The Model 3 is going to be somewhat lower than that but still if you can't notice a 4%-ish slope in the road you probably shouldn't be driving at all.

 

[SageBrush]

Floating the accelerator requires a lot of effort

Trivial effort in my experience, but I also don't sweat a bit off zero either way

 

[Sparky4life]

Floating the accelerator requires a lot of effort as you constantly have to adjust your foot for changes in the road terrain. This is why I like manual control of the regen.

The 'neutral' pedal position (not the neutral gear, just putting the pedal in the position where there's no commanded torque and no regen) has nothing to do with terrain. It's an absolute pedal position. Once you find it, it's easy to keep the pedal there and just coast, even up and down hills. This car coasts better than my LEAF doing this.

 

[Krazaak]

Yes, that's it. All I want are some small marks on it that show how many kilowatts per mile you're consuming / regenning. They don't even need to be labeled as long as we know scale is. Like maybe one mark for every kilowatt/mile or something. Right now with no marks on the bar it's fairly useless. All it really tells is your using power or your getting it back with no reference to anything. At that point, why even bother putting on the display at all? With some marks at least you could make a guessimate about how to stretch your range or maybe whether or not you even need to worry. Since we already have the bar why not put some marks on it and make it useful?

I know with the LR it wouldn't necessarily be used 90% of the time, but if you somehow got yourself in trouble in the middle of nowhere it could be quite handy. My Leaf had this information and it was very handy when I was making a long trip. And yes, I know the LR is no Leaf, but still it's good to understand how your car uses power when you're driving. A lot ICE vehicles have a Miles per Gallon gauge and they can go a long distances too.

In case you're not aware, the bar displays instantaneous power output/regen (kW), not efficiency (Wh/mi). Comparing to the Model S/X energy display, it's analogous to the orange/green ring around the energy meter in the cluster. I'm not sure why they didn't add a screen with the full detailed energy graph from the S/X. Even with tick marks though, that bar wouldn't be overly useful. Since it's an instantaneous value, you'd have to be watching it nearly constantly to gauge efficiency over any appreciable distance and that's not really safe.

The energy graph showing the power output over time would be much more valuable, since it shows the power over short intervals along with a trend line showing the expected range based on efficiency over 5, 15 and 30 mile samples.

 

[chinnam3]

Yeah...but I'm still a sucker for data. Would love to have an energy graph in the 3. =)

Count me in too..
I would love to have gauge like Model S, but would settle to have thicker line there with scale.

 

[chinnam3]

The 'neutral' pedal position (not the neutral gear, just putting the pedal in the position where there's no commanded torque and no regen) has nothing to do with terrain. It's an absolute pedal position. Once you find it, it's easy to keep the pedal there and just coast, even up and down hills. This car coasts better than my LEAF doing this.

Yes, we can find the pedal position to get to coast, but my observation it is dependent on speed. It seems accel pedal position proportional to motor/vehicle speed.

 

[nvx1977]

The 'neutral' pedal position (not the neutral gear, just putting the pedal in the position where there's no commanded torque and no regen) has nothing to do with terrain. It's an absolute pedal position. Once you find it, it's easy to keep the pedal there and just coast, even up and down hills. This car coasts better than my LEAF doing this.

Yes, we can find the pedal position to get to coast, but my observation it is dependent on speed. It seems accel pedal position proportional to motor/vehicle speed.

Yeah when I first read that pedal-neutral was a fixed position, I was like, oh wow, didn't know that. But now thinking about it, not sure if that's accurate. Will need to test this out. I have some good hills here. Will find pedal-neutral at the top of a hill and then see what happens when the car shoots down the hill. If neutral changes based on speed, I would expect to have to adjust the throttle position as the car accelerates.

Regardless of the result, here's yet another example of how just the visual bar is sufficient to guide you to do what you want to do. I don't need to know the kW value at any moment; just whether I need to add/reduce throttle based on the size and color of the bar.

 

[SageBrush]

But now thinking about it,

I think it is functionally an Amp-meter

 

[Jedi2155]

The 'neutral' pedal position (not the neutral gear, just putting the pedal in the position where there's no commanded torque and no regen) has nothing to do with terrain. It's an absolute pedal position. Once you find it, it's easy to keep the pedal there and just coast, even up and down hills. This car coasts better than my LEAF doing this.

You're essentially saying there is a deadzone between commanded power and regen on the pedal mapping which if true is equivalent to a neutral gear position.

As novox77 says, this needs to be further tested or confirmed by multiple users. I absolutely imagine this car coasting really well due to the small frontal surface area compared to a Leaf or my Spark. That combined with a low drag coefficient makes this thing a beauty in the high speed efficiency space.

 

[nvx1977]

my preliminary tests does seem to indicate that the transition between regen and accel is a fixed spot in the throttle. No matter the road grade, if I lock my foot position on the throttle where there is no regen or consumption, I can shoot down a big hill and never does green or black show up on the bar. It is effectively coasting. Now, I don't know if this is exactly the same as putting the car in neutral with the stalk, but the car certainly coasts a LONG time on a flat when pedal is floated at "neutral."

Actually, my wife told me on day 1 driving Model S that this is how she visualized how the throttle worked to get her brain to accept the single-pedal driving: fixed position in throttle depress corresponds to either regen or accel. I guess my brain doesn't conceptualize the pedal that way. I just drive by feel (car's accel/decel mapped to my foot action).