What charge port connector?

[TEG]

http://www.calodges.org/ecrl/4th Quarter 2007-W.pdf

...The only reason that silver is not used for electrical wiring is that it is expensive. Traditionally, Rolls-Royce cars were each unique, ordered to the specifications of the buyer. They had custom wood, ivory, leather, gold trim, special glass, and whatever the buyer wanted. It seems that there was an Arab sheik, newly rich with American oil money, who was told about the superior conductivity of silver. He promptly ordered that his Rolls-Royces be equipped with silver wiring...

 

[doug]

I thought this thread was the best to reply to your post: Umc 2.0

I appreciate you trying to preserve a sense of order. Those posts moved here (your link will still work).

 

[AndrewBissell]

I recently for the first time handled a CHAdeMO cable on a Leaf. I was surprised how small and light it was. My impression was it was about the same thickness and weight as my MC240 cable and thinner/lighter than a Roadster HPC cable.

 

[doug]

Somebody (other Doug?) I think said it was silver inside. Perhaps just a silver coating?

I don't think I said the connector was silver. If I did I was only referring to the hue.

Thinking about materials, though I wonder how many make/break connection cycles it's expected to last.

 

[TEG]

Maybe it was VFX...
What charge port connector?

The new plug is simply amazing. Smaller cable, great industrial design, hefty yet lightweight feel. About the size of my electric razor and heft like it was full of batteries (it is not). Great feel for men and women. The J connector feels massive and cheapy plasitc compared to this beauty.

Button on top for sending Rf signal to open the charge port door (pretty sure) and button also releases the connector from the car.

Contacts are silver.

Was told the adapter to J connector is small. Like half a soda can size. It will also latch to car so it can't be removed...

 

[VolkerP]

By the way, what's up with this cable handle on this CHAdeMO? :

It will grow HEAAAVVY in your hands during that 45 minutes... intended by design, makes you free up that expensive fast charger.
What is the guy looking at so anxious? A running meter? Uh oh, electricity hitting 490Yen/carat?

 

[Norbert]

The thin cable is for home use, and it will overcome day-to-day concerns about handling big heavy cables. On the other hand, the DC fast charge cable will be a beast, but since you'll only use it once in a while it shouldn't be a barrier to acceptance. People will gladly struggle with a monster cable once in a while to get a 45 minute charge on a road trip.

I'd think a thicker cable is fine as long as the end of it doesn't try to eat you.

Part of CHAdeMO and SAE/Mennekes combo is physical robustness to handle the torque of the cable weight.

That's probably why the part of the connector going into the plug is quite long, and has the triangular mechanical connection in the center. The connector and the plug need to be of solid material, of course.

 

[Norbert]

I recently for the first time handled a CHAdeMO cable on a Leaf. I was surprised how small and light it was. My impression was it was about the same thickness and weight as my MC240 cable and thinner/lighter than a Roadster HPC cable.

Good, then a 90 kW cable should't be that much worse (in case Tesla can't make it thinner, relatively speaking).

I think the CHAdeMO connector is a bit less unwieldy than the combo connectors (but then, it requires a second plug for Level 2).

 

[VolkerP]

The Tesla Connector resembles the IBM PS/2 microchannel architecture:
* technically superior
* no legacy design elements
* protected & proprietary standard, Tesla controls access for competitors

So why did microchannel go down the drain?
* competing standards already established (ISA bus)
* vendors and third party suppliers shy of supporting additional standard
* IBM didn't have the market penetration to make customers switch (though they "invented" the PC)

I do hope Tesla either has more luck in establishing a standard or, by the time things go awry, they make the switch to support established standards: J1772, Mennekes, and CHAdeMO.

 

[Norbert]

I do hope Tesla either has more luck in establishing a standard or, by the time things go awry, they make the switch to support established standards: J1772, Mennekes, and CHAdeMO.

As long as Tesla does indeed install a charging infrastructure for traveling, how could it fail? Do you think it will keep people from buying a Model S? Consider how many Roadsters and Leafs were sold in the US without much of an infrastructure. And once there are thousands of Model S, what would keep their owners from using 90 kW chargers? And once they tell everyone else how they can travel with less waiting time at chargers, why would that not speak in favor of the Model S?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

As long as Tesla does indeed install a charging infrastructure for traveling, how could it fail?

We need to see the Tesla DC Charging Station on the ground and in locations where we want to charge. Until that network exists across Europe then I cannot use the Model S in mainland Europe (because it does not support 3-Phase) and I cannot travel more than ~200 miles in the UK because a family of 7 do not want to hang about for hours waiting to recharge on the HPC or "mennekes" networks.

If I'm unable to use the Model S as an EV 'fanboy' then large numbers of 'mainstream' car drivers who wish to undertake 200+ mile trips will not consider the car. Given that the DC Charging Station network is critical we need to see locations being announced and hardware being installed before the car arrives in Europe... from experience I know that these networks take years to build.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

As long as Tesla does indeed install a charging infrastructure for traveling, how could it fail?

If the pricing structure is wrong then people will choose not to use the sites.... I think that would be a failure

 

[VolkerP]

No point in reasoning with people from a nation that's used to have different sockets for every electric appliance. I stared in disbelief on the list of NEMA sockets for which you can buy an adapter for the UMC (for $100 each).
The problems of ZCW and Ecotality to install charge points, even with sufficient funding or a low-cost approach, have been reported here. They indicate that Tesla will face serious obstacles in providing such infrastructure. They managed to put amazing cars on the road. Does this qualify for trying to establish yet another charge port standard?
Yes I am in serious doubt if Model S is the right car for road tripping Europe. And I have no arguments to anybody questioning that subject, except what you state: "Don't worry, when the car arrives, Tesla will supply the infra structure."

 

[Norbert]

Given that the DC Charging Station network is critical we need to see locations being announced and hardware being installed before the car arrives in Europe... from experience I know that these networks take years to build.

Perhaps you need to wait then until that happens... however is there an option your Roadster gives you which the Model S doesn't?

If the pricing structure is wrong then people will choose not to use the sites.... I think that would be a failure

Which "pricing structure"? Earlier this year Elon said that in the beginning, the DC chargers will be free.

 

[Norbert]

No point in reasoning with people from a nation that's used to have different sockets for every electric appliance. I stared in disbelief on the list of NEMA sockets for which you can buy an adapter for the UMC (for $100 each).

Based on what I read on this forum, NEMA 14-50 is the single most important one (other than 120V), and that is (AFAIK) included in the UMC.

The problems of ZCW and Ecotality to install charge points, even with sufficient funding or a low-cost approach, have been reported here. They indicate that Tesla will face serious obstacles in providing such infrastructure. They managed to put amazing cars on the road. Does this qualify for trying to establish yet another charge port standard?
Yes I am in serious doubt if Model S is the right car for road tripping Europe. And I have no arguments to anybody questioning that subject, except what you state: "Don't worry, when the car arrives, Tesla will supply the infra structure."

First, I haven't said that it will be there from day one, on the contrary, I have said it may not.

Second, if installation is so difficult, then how is Nissan supposed to be able to install CHAdeMO chargers in no time all over Europe? (They already have a certain number at a number of their dealers in the UK.)

 

[widodh]

Second, if installation is so difficult, then how is Nissan supposed to be able to install CHAdeMO chargers in no time all over Europe? (They already have a certain number at a number of their dealers in the UK.)

So, let's go and setup a second fast charge network for Tesla only?

If you have a Nissan, here is your list with charging stations. With a Tesla, please go to this location! Seriously? I don't get it! It might be because I work in IT and I'm a big fan of Open Source software and Open Standards.

I'm already getting confused with al these new 'standards', how do we think new EV owners are going to work their way through this? You won't be able to sell that to them.

But to get back ontopic.

Do I like the new connector? No, I don't. Yes, it's smooth and small. Do I really care? No, it's just a plug. As long as the protocol it uses is the same, I'll make a cable or someone can make an adapter.

But the idea new of putting a whole new DC protocol in the S and not being able to charge at the existing CHAdeMO sites really scares me! Also, the frustration of being at a 3-phase charging station, knowing your car could charge there 3 times faster will be huge. But even worse, somebody had the stupid idea of re-inventing the wheel and being "Apple like" will probably cause more frustration.

The CHAdeMO chargers in Europe are not being installed only by Nissan, but by various companies and cities.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Perhaps you need to wait then until that happens...

I have decided to do just that and will advise the same to anyone who needs to travel in Europe or more than 200 miles a day fully loaded.

however is there an option your Roadster gives you which the Model S doesn't?

I'm prepared to 'tolerate' long waits while charging on road trips because I'm often alone or can change my schedule to meet the cars requirements. The Model S is a completely different proposition and if it wants to compete with ICE cars in Europe then it requires a DC Fast Charge network.

Which "pricing structure"? Earlier this year Elon said that in the beginning, the DC chargers will be free.

Even if the DC Chargers are free to start no site will subsidise 90kW charging indefinitely because the economics don't stack up... it's one thing to swap an HPC charge for a good meal at a 4* restaurant but something completely different if you're stopping for coffee or a snack at a service station.

 

[Norbert]

So, let's go and setup a second fast charge network for Tesla only?

If you have a Nissan, here is your list with charging stations. With a Tesla, please go to this location! Seriously? I don't get it! It might be because I work in IT and I'm a big fan of Open Source software and Open Standards.

I'm already getting confused with al these new 'standards', how do we think new EV owners are going to work their way through this? You won't be able to sell that to them.

I'm not a salesman, I'm a customer/future owner of an EV, and that is indeed what I want to buy. Small, elegant, ease of use, and last but not least, 90 kW.

But to get back ontopic.

Do I like the new connector? No, I don't. Yes, it's smooth and small. Do I really care? No, it's just a plug. As long as the protocol it uses is the same, I'll make a cable or someone can make an adapter.

An adapter from what to what? To charge a Leaf with 90 kW, or a Model S with 50 kW? Problem solved?

But the idea new of putting a whole new DC protocol in the S and not being able to charge at the existing CHAdeMO sites really scares me!

Who says there won't be a CHAdeMO adapter? Everyone here thinks it will be likely (except for the "standard" proponents who don't want a Tesla connector in the first place).

Also, the frustration of being at a 3-phase charging station, knowing your car could charge there 3 times faster will be huge. But even worse, somebody had the stupid idea of re-inventing the wheel and being "Apple like" will probably cause more frustration.

The same would apply to a Leaf (and probably a Volt/Ampera), actually even more so.

The CHAdeMO chargers in Europe are not being installed only by Nissan, but by various companies and cities.

Which means ?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Who says there won't be a CHAdeMO adapter? Everyone here thinks it will be likely (except for the "standard" proponents who don't want a Tesla connector in the first place).

we need to see Tesla state that and deliver a working adapter so that we can road trip when the car arrives in Europe

Which means ?

hundreds of CHAdeMO locations that can be used for charging by the time that the Model S hits the streets. This will almost certainly include many of the service stations on the UK road network making it possible for a Leaf to travel anywhere in the UK and fast charge.

 

[Norbert]

Even if the DC Chargers are free to start no site will subsidise 90kW charging indefinitely because the economics don't stack up... it's one thing to swap an HPC charge for a good meal at a 4* restaurant but something completely different if you're stopping for coffee or a snack at a service station.

The same applies to CHAdeMO except that customers will be more willing to pay for 90 kW charging than for 50 kW charging, and Model S customers are more likely to charge a larger amount which makes it more worthwhile, needing less time to do so.