What defines acceptable battery condition?

[vitesse]

I'm new to Tesla and I soon hope to evaluate a 3-year-old 85D which has done 70,000 miles. Obviously, the general condition of the car is fairly straightforward to assess, but what about the battery? I'm looking to buy from a used car specialist dealer, though they are not a specialist in Teslas. I do realise the battery and motors are under warranty but normal degradation isn't, of course, covered.

What should I check and what would be acceptable figures for the battery of a decent 70,000-mile car. I'm in the UK and so we do have winter weather but severe cold is (now) relatively rare. I believe there is a supercharger not far from its location, so should I get it charged up fully to check the predicted range or is there a more convenient way to assess the state of degradation - and in any case, what can be considered normal and acceptable degradation for an 85KWH battery?

70,000 miles in 3 years is quite high and I wonder if it has mainly been supercharged, which could be an issue for battery degradation. On the other hand, I'm not at all worried about mechanical wear and tear in comparison to a conventional car.

 

[ucmndd]

The 85s generally hold up quite well. I would ask the dealer to charge it to 100% and report the rated range to you. If degradation is less than say 5% from the original rated range, I'd say the battery is in quite good condition. Less than 10% degradation is probably acceptable at that mileage. At any rate, you've got the full 8 year unlimited mile battery warranty if anything is amiss.

 

[vitesse]

Thanks; what is the reference range for an 85 at 100% charge?

 

[commasign]

Brand new, 265 miles rated range. At 70,000 miles, anything above 240 miles rated range would be reasonable. A really well maintained 85 battery (infrequent supercharging, most cycles between 50% and 80%, temperate climate) could still have a rated range close to 250 miles.

 

[vitesse]

Thank you both

 

[vitesse]

While I think of it, is the fully charged mileage estimate based on a standard consumption wattage or is it calculated from the driving history of that particular car?

 

[vitesse]

Hopefully the last question! Do I need to get the battery fully charged? If the info indicates, say, 50% charge, would the referemce mileage be 50% of 265, or, - about 132 or 133? Or for about 6% degradation at about 124-125 miles?

 

[TonyT]

We have 2 13 S's one was heavily supercharged, and one was not. Both 100k+ miles and 242 and 244 @100, not seeing much difference in range.

 

[vitesse]

We have 2 13 S's one was heavily supercharged, and one was not. Both 100k+ miles and 242 and 244 @100, not seeing much difference in range.

Sounds encouraging. They are 85s?

 

[TonyT]

Sounds encouraging. They are 85s?

Sorry, should have noted, but it's also in my sig Yes, both are 85

 

[TonyT]

While I think of it, is the fully charged mileage estimate based on a standard consumption wattage or is it calculated from the driving history of that particular car?

You can choose, select rated and it's calculated from the expected usage. Estimated range would not be a good comparison.

 

[vitesse]

From what I am seeing in the US the rated distance is an EPA figure while in Europe it's NEDC calculated, so 328 miles instead of 270 (EPA figure for dual motor 85s). Presumable European cars over here will display the NEDC numbers rather than EPA ones?

 

[Rocky_H]

Yeah, be very careful about the North American versus the European standards because the word "rated" means totally opposite things and has very different numbers.
In the U.S.,
"rated" is the low one
"ideal" is the high one

In the UK,
"typical" is the low one
"rated" is the high one

That's because of what @vitesse mentioned about how the U.S. uses EPA for its rating, which is kind of realistic. But in Europe, is the NEDC, which is a ridiculous fantasy that no one can hope to achieve.

So I don't know what the typical and rated values were for the 85D in the UK. You would need to look that up.

 

[SSedan]

I also want to point out that this idea electric cars "have nothing to wear" is complete and utter crap. At 70k basically no car built today is going to exhibit drivetrain wear.
The drivetrain is the only part of a Tesla that is unique.
The rest of it is just another car, in wet climates brakes often need attention around this time due to corrosion or the pad lubricant having dried out or washed away causing the pads to not float properly. Suspension rattles are common around this mileage in air suspension cars especially service center admitted to me they see some suspension bushing wear too given the weight and torque.

Point being, other than the battery, motor/gearbox it is just another car they ALL exhibit wear with use pretending Tesla is magical because it uses an alternative drivetrain is not rational or reasonable.

 

[vitesse]

I also want to point out that this idea electric cars "have nothing to wear" is complete and utter crap. At 70k basically no car built today is going to exhibit drivetrain wear.
The drivetrain is the only part of a Tesla that is unique.
The rest of it is just another car, in wet climates brakes often need attention around this time due to corrosion or the pad lubricant having dried out or washed away causing the pads to not float properly. Suspension rattles are common around this mileage in air suspension cars especially service center admitted to me they see some suspension bushing wear too given the weight and torque.

Point being, other than the battery, motor/gearbox it is just another car they ALL exhibit wear with use pretending Tesla is magical because it uses an alternative drivetrain is not rational or reasonable.

I take note of what you say but the motors remain under Tesla warranty. In my experience it is the engines in conventional cars that can result in the biggest unexpected (as well as routine) costs - and I have had a few of those. I have heard from other Tesla owners that brake life is noticeably longer. I'm currently driving a 108K mile 2009 Mazda 6 and it has been one of the most reliable cars I've owned. The previous Mazda 6 I had was an absolute lemon, though I don't blame Mazda, for reasons not worth expanding on here. Of course the conventional aspects of the Model S will be just as vulnerable as a conventional car. The car I'm waiting on does not have air suspension.

 

[Rocky_H]

The car I'm waiting on does not have air suspension.

I made sure not to get air suspension or the panoramic sunroof specifically because I wanted to keep the car a very long time and didn't want ongoing little problems and issues with them. And in the 15-20 year old kind of time frame, those air suspensions can get into some really expensive repairs like $3,000+ per wheel to get fixed. So I definitely wanted to avoid that.

 

[vitesse]

I made sure not to get air suspension or the panoramic sunroof specifically because I wanted to keep the car a very long time and didn't want ongoing little problems and issues with them. And in the 15-20 year old kind of time frame, those air suspensions can get into some really expensive repairs like $3,000+ per wheel to get fixed. So I definitely wanted to avoid that.

The car I'm looking at has the sunroof. I've seen some reports if leaks. I've had sunroofs before and I'm content with the potential issues. I think a sunroof make a big difference to the car. Once again it has to be said that I have had positive feedback on the reliability of the air suspension, though these are up to 5 yeasr old cars mainly - anyway, I don't have that option. I think we will keep this car, if we get it, 2-3 years. By that time we might be able to afford to trade-in for used AP2 Model S

 

[Snowstorm]

You don’t have to charge it to 100% to check range. Get it to 80% is good enough and just extrapolate.

 

[SSedan]

I take note of what you say but the motors remain under Tesla warranty. In my experience it is the engines in conventional cars that can result in the biggest unexpected (as well as routine) costs - and I have had a few of those. I have heard from other Tesla owners that brake life is noticeably longer. I'm currently driving a 108K mile 2009 Mazda 6 and it has been one of the most reliable cars I've owned. The previous Mazda 6 I had was an absolute lemon, though I don't blame Mazda, for reasons not worth expanding on here. Of course the conventional aspects of the Model S will be just as vulnerable as a conventional car. The car I'm waiting on does not have air suspension.

One thing you have to watch for is that a substantial portion of the information is from California Tesla owners, very mild climate. Also I did not say the brakes wear out, I said corrosion and lubricant being washed away or drying out cause issues. Never been to either but it is my understanding that the UK and California have different climates. The UK climate is going to be one that could cause corrosion issues in the brakes.
Also there are different things to fail an onboard charger is $2200 over here, that is nearly what a transmission costs, a charge port is I think $500 and those do wear from the plugging unplugging as can the UMC plug.
12volt battery tends to be shorter lived than in an ICE.

Far as seeing lots of engine troubles in ICE that is a new one by me everyone I know has no major troubles with unmodified engines regardless of brand.

Just to be clear I love my car but in my experience and opinion this "EVs have nothing to go wrong and the whole car lasts forever" idea pushed by the sycophants is an outright lie.

Another thing is that if the car you are looking at is red they are very hard on back tires since so much regenerative braking and all your acceleration happens with them. This car is more sensitive to tire rotation than anything else I have experience with, dual motor cars spread the wear around, but annually even if not rotating the tires you should lubricate the brakes.

 

[juliusa]

My 2013 85 has 151k miles and charges to 238 now. Newer cars seem to have slightly less degradation.

$1000 in suspension and 12v battery are the only out-of-warranty repairs. Would have spend that on oil changes in a conventional car. Also no brakes - probably would have had at least two brake jobs on a conventional car by now.

I've never had such a fancy expensive car to maintain - but this has cost me less than half what I spent on my Prius maintenance in the first 6 years.