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What does "...improve P85D performance at high speed..." mean?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by commasign, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    At the bottom of the order page, it says "Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date." This sentence is separate from the sentence talking about the upgrade to enable 155mph top speed. So what does it mean? What does "power electronics", "performance", and "high speed" mean?

    Theories:

    - longer sustained high kW output?
    - faster acceleration at highway speeds? faster quarter mile?

    Probably not anything related to "handling" (torque vectoring, suspension, steering, etc.,)?
     
  2. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    I'm reading this as faster acceleration at highway speeds in addition to the advertised top speed finally being enabled. Otherwise all that text is meaningless to me since they could have just said "top speed will be increased to 155mph"...

    And from reports/videos the car is nowhere near outputting the same KW-value seen on the wattmeter at highway speeds as it does when doing a standing start. So fopefully they have an extra trick up their sleeve here:)
     
  3. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Right. They mention 155mph as one available upgrade, then this performance improvement as a separate firmware update. Would be amazing if they could bring the quarter mile down another half second, or bring 0-60mph down to less than 3 seconds.
     
  4. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    For me personally I believe the 0-60 time is more than fast enough based on reports here:) much more interested in extra grunt at highway speeds. And the text speaks about performance at high speed so I assume we are not talking about power from a standstill.
     
  5. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

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    My best bet is an improvement in the 50-100 performance band. Just going by seat of the pants feel, it doesn't seem to deliver the same horsepower at higher speeds.
     
  6. tc4542

    tc4542 Member

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    This is where it needs a bump, the 50-80mph is pretty lame, completely different than the 0-50mph. In fact, in this range, I don't think its any quicker than any other 85. It may beat anything down below but it sure won't if the challenge starts at 50mph.
     
  7. MrMax

    MrMax Member

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    Thanks for the posts! Lame 50-100 performance concerns me. Fast out of traffic lights is fun, but good performance when overtaking is of much more interest. Lots of our countryside roads are one lane each direction ..
    Is the time used from 50-100 the same if you go 0-100, as if you cruise at a constant 50 and then go to 100?
     
  8. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    I think it's a reference to torque sleeping one of the motors at high speed. The improvements are in the range. See the TM blog page.
     
  9. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    This does not compute with the wording on that page for me at least.

    This is to me clearly worded towards performance and not range:
    Would be ridiculous words to choose if it was concerning range which now isnt promised to be anywhere above previous versions. The blog from JB has nothing related to performance at speed has it?
     
  10. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    I am not certain what it means either but lend me your 85D for a month or two and I will take it upon myself to experiment in every way possible and report back all my findings. :wink:
     
  11. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    Oh I doubt this very much!
     
  12. MrMax

    MrMax Member

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    Some more reports around here including this very good one Owners delivery stories, photos and first impressions - Page 138
    indicating the same. We can always discuss the term lame, but I expect performance in all speed-ranges to be way better than e.g. a 560 hp BMW M5. Am I expecting too much?
     
  13. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    #13 darthy001, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    In case you havent seen it:
     
  14. gpetti

    gpetti Active Member

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    Obviously lame is a relative term. Being the same or better than a P85 or even an 85 is still pretty good and adequate most normal driving; however, I read lame to mean, compared to the P85D performance from 0-50, it is nowhere near as jaw dropping and the car doesn't excel in this band.
     
  15. commasign

    commasign Active Member

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    Agree. There's 3 different updates coming out for the P85D:

    torque sleep - "by end of January 2015"
    155mph top speed (optional) - "coming months"
    high speed performance - "next few months"

    Sleeping and efficiency are not things that one would ever describe as "...above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date..."
     
  16. gpetti

    gpetti Active Member

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    Agreed. Is it just me or does the wording on that part of the paragraph seem kind of weird and awkward - not consistent with the writing style of the rest of it. Maybe someone asked the engineers for a quick description in an email and then posted it verbatim into the web page.
     
  17. tc4542

    tc4542 Member

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    #17 tc4542, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
    There is still plenty of power to pass comfortably but it is a completely different experience void of all the excessive thrills experienced down below. I was quite shocked when I kicked it at 60-mph waiting for something relative to happen. Not only did it not happen, but it was a bit disconcerting. I made comment of this to the Tesla manager with me. So then I tried it again to see if it was me and had the same results. This is why I insisted on taking it out on the Tollway, to check performance at this level. Now the experience was still enough to sell me based on the quickness from 0-MPH, plus the handling all around, fit and finish, etc... But I certainly told myself once the car arrived I would need to lower my expectations in this throttle range and just accept it as the way it is. Again, there was plenty of power to pass, and in no way excessively anemic or dangerous, just not anything like my Ruf or 997tts, or even itself above 50-MPH. Do you see any videos promoting this car, vs similar German or other counterparts, accelerating from 50-MPH on up? Nope and there is a reason for that. Now can they fix this with an update? Absolutely they can and I'll bet you the one Elon is driving isn't this way, and I can also guarantee you he's only getting about 150-MPH in total range IF that. This probably explains the "Anyone outside Tesla " remark.

    You can't cheat physics, in this car or any other ICE car. If you put your foot in it with either vehicle you will suck energy/burn fuel, especially in the power band being discussed. I can't see them releasing this update to improve mid band torque until everyone is already sold on the car for its performance and other attributes, and are willing to accept and forgo the depleted range in doing so, not without the 110 (or whatever's in pipeline) battery that is... Is this deceptive marketing? No. That would be like accusing Porsche of not hitting their EPA milage on a Cayenne Turbo just because you have a heavy foot. For instance my CTT only got 9-miles to the gallon due to my torque requirements which was way below the Monroney. So why aren't they releasing the "Normal" setting on the "D" as of yet? Most likely the same marketing reasons but different direction. The "Normal" setting simply will only allow it accelerate like any other "Model S" which would likely greatly disappoint everyone here if released too early in the promotion. I think to accomplish the published range they will have to disengage the front motor as has been rumored. Where does that leave you? Right where I described, no different than any other. Again, is this a deal breaker??? No, because the same playing field exists in an ICE vehicle. I can make my Porsche hit the EPA rating but its just not very much fun to do so:) As a result I better be full of gas and have a gas station available downline if I'm going to drive in this manner. This brings us the the dreaded but very real "Rage Anxiety". Will you ever be able to put your foot in an 85D, ESPECIALLY with a torque update, and not have to be concerned about this? No, it is the way it is. Can you work around it? Yes if you plan and/or only have short daily commutes as I do. With this battery pack will you ever get your cake and eat it to? No, not possible. And even when they do get SC's all over the place, if you drive in the new mode or with heavy foot, plan on stopping at about every one of them and taking a thirty minute break. Its just the way it is... I still want it but I will keep an ICE vehicle for long trips and that's fine for the moment.

    And you can bet when they release the 155-MPH update we'll loose range there too. Elon has to juggle all of this very carefully. The positives and realities must outweigh the negatives. No doubt this car is better suited for a 110 battery but that's not the way it is at the moment. So sacrifices must be made somewhere. I believe their current thinking to limit top speed and mid range acceleration for initial "rollout" is valid. I will be perfectly happy launching to get my kicks, really over 60-MPH it is not that big of issue unless you want to get a ticket or loose your license, in the US that is. And I would warn all of us as a whole to be mindful of this because the insurance companies are watching this very closely. And we all are being grouped together in the study. Anything stupid I do will directly affect you. Its a small trackable group. And as soon as "stupid" show's its ugly head, especially with the cost of parts/repairs on this thing, insurance costs will set their own 0-60 record. All and all I still think its brilliant, simply identify we're all "torque junkies" and build accordingly. It really has never been about HP:). Sorry to wonder but its all relative...
     
  18. MrMax

    MrMax Member

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    @tc4542 Do you drive/own a P85D today?
     
  19. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    Interesting to see how perceptions have changed. 50+ mph passing is now lame. A year ago everyone was talking about awesome passing capabilities, Teslaporting, etc.

    My P85 is still freakishly quick at passing at freeway speeds.
     
  20. tc4542

    tc4542 Member

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    #20 tc4542, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
    The "D" will spoil you very quickly. Once again compared to the 0-60 its considered lame in comparison. Obviously if Tesla is planning a performance update they must concur. I just think its important to point out they are two completely different experiences and don't expect the same performance up top. The P85 is probably more balanced which wouldn't make the differences so obvious. I still bought one, order number RN5909---, a fully loaded "D", which will be here in March. I delayed it due to the Recaro seating debacle to get worked out. Mr Max I spent several hours in two different "D"s driving all around Dallas, got a very good handle on the car and how it performs in many different situations. I think what impressed me the most was the overall "non drama" driving characteristics. Due to traffic I was forced at times to drive it normally. I found it to be one of the nicest sedans I've ever driven, the real deal. My only complaints were the mid range performance issues as discussed, and the upgraded stereo which falls very short of the Levinson, B&O, and Burmeister, it supposedly competes with and is billed as. This is discussed in another thread.
     

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