Holy word wall Batman!
I'll see if I can address some of this continued misinformation presented as fact by someone who briefly scanned over a few posts in internet forums about this topic once and now considers himself an expert.
“The amount of rampant misinformation that is spewed on this forum as fact by people who clearly don't know the first thing of what they speak is staggering.”
This could not be more true with your lack of knowledge regarding the differences between Gen 1 UMC and Gen 2 MC chargers. And the purpose of making the Gen 2 MC and Gen 2 Wall Chargers.
The most common moronic misconception that is made about Gen 2 chargers, that it was simply made cause it’s cheaper. This is ridiculous and common sense should kick in to say that there has to be more logical reasons and concerns as to why Tesla would decide to make another charger.
That's not what I said so stop putting words in my mouth to try to make your point.
What I said was the gen 1 was analog components and the gen 2 version was digital. The digital component gen 2 version IS an upgrade over the gen 1. It's also less expensive to make which is the case for most every device that made the transition from analog to digital circuitry.
You keep trying to make it seem like gen 1 UMCs were burning houses down left and right and the truth is it never happened. The few times that outlets/plugs melted or got hot ended up being a problem with the outlet installation causing the problem in every instance I saw.
Also, for a self-professed expert on this topic I'm surprised you don't know that the "C" in UMC and HPWC stands for "Connector" and not "Charger" as you keep referring to them. Probably nit picking but it's a pretty glaring mistake for someone who knows everything. I bet you knew that though. Probably just testing me.
First off the Gen 2 chargers are far more advanced than the Gen 1. The primary reason for making them was due to Gen 1 chargers overheating and the dangers associated with it (meting outlets, cords, connectors, etc that can potentially lead to fires) Gen 1 chargers have a completely different type of technology than Gen 2 chargers. Both will read the amount of amps of each outlet being used based on the adapters components. The difference between the two is much more advanced than just how much amps they are capable of using and the price they cost.
Gen 1 chargers have adapters with resistors built inside. Each type of Gen 1 Tesla adapter (i.e. 5-15, 15-50 ) has a resistor with a different value. Gen 1 chargers uses these components to match the amps from the adapter to the outlet being used. Once the adapter determines what outlet is being used, it will signal to the car to limit the amount of amps it attempts to use based on the current rating of the outlet. The resistor is a bypass circuit and does not reduce the amps to the car if it starts to overheat etc. Running things like the heater, AC, max power etc can cause overheating. Also the higher amps it pulls the more likely it will overheat. Other factors like faulty wiring etc, can cause overheating as well obviously.
The first portion of this is accurate and almost a copy/paste from what I said. Good job!
The second half it comes off of the rails though with your stories of how much harder it is on the charger or car to run accessory type features of the car while it's plugged in. That's just dumb.
If you knew the first thing about electricity and these chargers you would know that 40A @ 240-volts is 40A @ 240-volts and absolutely no amount of items running in the car, the house, your neighbors or whatever changes that. Zero. Saying "obviously" in things like you have some idea what you're talking about doesn't help. You're wrong. Period.
Gen 2 Chargers actually have a built in circuit board. The circuit board contains an advanced chip, has a memory, a temperature sensor, and supporting components. Using a circuit board makes the Gen 2 adapters much more advanced than the Gen 1 adapters. And Tesla uses all these different components to measure the temperature of the adapter’s plug, allowing it to reduce the charging amps if the adapter gets too hot until it cools down. On top of that Tesla can tell exactly what adapter is being used cause they all have a built in memory chip with a serial number.
As far as why they chose to limit the Gen 2 chargers to 32 amps has been a question of debate since the Gen 1 chargers were much more prone to overheating at 40 amps, it’s assumed that’s the reasoning. However the real reason is cause there is the possibility of a 40 amp outlet being used that the Gen 1 chargers would allow to charge to 40 amps. Hence 32 amps is 80% of 40.
Yes, 32 is 80% of 40 so you aren't entirely wrong. Another gold star!
Now, as to why they arrived at 32A it wasn't just a guess or a dart on a dart board regardless of what you "assume".
Gen 2 UMCs are 32A because of the fact that some NEMA 14-50 outlets installed decades ago all over the country are wired only for 40A due to a previous stance on what the NEMA 14-50 standard was. As you're traveling around the countryside you may find a NEMA 14-50 on a 40A circuit and if you don't know what to look for. Connecting a Gen 1 UMC capable of 40A into a 40A circuit could create an unsafe condition much in the same way that connecting a Gen 2 UMC capable of 32A into a 30A outlet could in the hands of a moron. In both situations you're relying on the fail-safes to do their job and those aren't 100% so it's best to avoid those entirely through common sense.
The decision was made to go with a 32A continuous charger as it made the most sense. It also matched the majority of cars being manufactured at the time which also had less expensive AC chargers in them.... all in an effort to cut costs. Users who wanted higher charge rates would upgrade the onboard AC charger and likely install HPWC making for more profit... again financial decision in so many ways.
You keep saying it had nothing to do with cost but I see a bit of a pattern emerging here if you take your head out of the sand.
If you ever took the time to research the Gen 1 chargers and all the information posted from owners experiences from melted outlets, connectors, handles, etc than you would realize why they made the Gen 2 chargers. It wasn’t cause of costs etc, there was very good reasons that most have the common sense to assume there would be.
Just on this forum alone you can find plenty of instances of owners having issues.Here is a picture from a post from a member on here who’s gen 1 connector melted. Notice the color of the connector is gray. Either the ones that are gray or all black supposedly are less prone to overheating. I can’t remember if it was the all black or gray ones but the first time I had one that melted, I was using a 5-15 adapter. Slow charging at 11 amps cause it would actually get more miles at 11 amps than 12. Whichever one it was, Tesla had already known about supposed issues with that one, since the first thing they asked me was what color it was. They ended up replacing it with the safer one. The other time I was using one plugged into a 50 amp outlet and charging at 40 amps but had max power on, and the AC as well.
So really the only person attacking others would be the one commenting that it’s preposterous to say that Gen 1 chargers can lead to fires etc. Since the information is already out there showing many occasions when the cable was extremely hot or the connectors melted, etc. Or someone rambling off all the facts they assume they know about the 2 different charges but really have no idea, saying the same thing basically, how idiotic people are on here yet they themselves are the one who is greatly misinformed and spreading false assumptions rather than understanding the dangers.
I clearly have done my research and the accusation that I haven't only makes you look that much more foolish. I also have paid special attention to owner posts over the years here and at many, many other places online and in person.
The Gen 1 issue was the problem with the adapters and NOT the UMC itself. This is why they recalled all of the adapters for a few of the different outlets: NEMA 14-30, NEMA 10-30 and NEMA 6-50 with the black base. None of the others were involved in the recall because they were perfectly safe when matched to outlets/circuits that were properly installed to code. The "fires" and issues you speak of were directly related to the first version of these three adapters and revision 2 of those fixed that. No more issues. Even the frequency of those "issues" has been greatly exaggerated as there were only two of these reported prior to the voluntary recall of these three adapters that weren't adapters included with the UMC.
I never said that a Gen 1 UMC can't lead to fires but so can the Gen 2. To make it sound like it's more of an issue or that the Gen 1 UMC is somehow a widow maker is simply wrong. No other way to explain that. In most of the issues where someone's plug melted it was actually the home's wiring that was the culprit. In almost every case I've seen of overheated plugs (gen 1 or gen 2) the outlet is the problem with the wiring (not proper size) being 2nd most frequent. In that instance it doesn't matter if you use a gen 1 or a gen 2 if the wiring is done improperly.
Often times it's a homeowner that throws a NEMA 14-50 in and does the proper break, wire and all components are to code but the installation is done improperly. In these instances, you will see that the wire isn't stripped completely of insulation so when they tighten the outlet's lug down on the wire a little tiny strip of it gets caught in the contacts. This will create resistance at that point in the circuit and if you know anything about electricity (I assume you don't based on some of the things you've said so far so) resistance equals increased heat. Heat in and of itself isn't bad but there's a limit to what is considered excessive and excessive heat can be dangerous.
In just about every case I've seen of melted or overheated outlets the home owner's wiring was to blame. This same thing can happen with a Gen 2 although the potential for failure would be 20% less based on the sustained draw difference. Again, we're talking about rate of failures due to improper wiring so the issue STILL Isn't the UMC.
That doesn't mean it's not possible nor did I say it wasn't. These items are man-made and men make mistakes. I'm just not buying your claim that gen 1 UMCs are death traps and the UMC gen 2 is flawless and that was the motivation behind the update because I know better.
This is largely conjecture an assuming to know what most of the failures are since I haven't seen ALL failures first-hand but if you can assume based on zero information why can't I assume based on some information?
Which doesn’t bother me cause I have no problem if someone doesn’t agree just don’t get mad when I give you the actual facts and have experienced the same issues with the Gen 1 chargers. Since most members may have no idea about the potential dangers, it takes real owners experiences to help others avoid potentially dangerous and deadly experiences from happening to them.
Also with Gen 1 chargers many owners will use adapters that are not made by Tesla that will charge at whatever amps they choose or they don’t realize what the amps have been preset too. Some owners had no idea the amps could even be adjusted. Here is a picture of someone charging 30 amps on a 30 amp outlet, I assume they are using an adapter which would not be compatible with the gen 2 charger based on how Tesla made the adapters. Which is why it was so common for owners to use adapters not made by Tesla when they owned the Gen 1 chargers.
The Gen 2 charger was specifically made to prevent owners from buying these adapters that would plug directly into a Gen 1 14-50 adapter. When using these adapters you can set a car to charge at as many amps as it is capable of.Many owners who use these adapters do so cause they go camping etc, so they bought adapters to use based on what outlets were available. Not knowing the dangers associated with using these adapters especially if preset above what the outlet is rated for.
There also been owners who have posted the same experiences only using Tesla adapters that were able to charge past the amount the outlet was rated. There are clearly more problems with the Gen 1 chargers that most don’t know about which is why Tesla went the extra mile when making the Gen 2 chargers. If there was an instance of it allowing more amps or continuously overheating they have the information at there disposal with the ability to know every adapter being used based on the technology used to make them.
Just cause you have never experienced any issues doesn’t mean that it hasn’t and doesn’t occur. It’s obviously not something that occurs with everyone but Tesla has added ways to deter these things from happening, whether limiting the amount of amps it can charge, or dropping the amps when it’s overheating, to making them not compatible with third party adapters. These are all reasons why they made the Gen 2 MC since they have no control of the outlet being used.
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Just because someone had something happen to them doesn't mean the know the first thing about why it happened. Experiencing a problem doesn't make you an expert. I don't have to burn a house down due to faulty electrical work to know how to prevent it. Likewise, a homeowner can have their house burn the ground due to improperly electrical work and still not know the first reason why.
Homemade adapters can be used for BOTH gen 1 and gen 2 so this entire portion is wrong. Again, if you knew half as much as you claimed you would already know that. Most people use NEMA 14-50 adapters supplied by Tesla for their homemade adapters which allows for 50A. They then manually decrease the amps in the car via the MCU to match whatever outlet they're plugged in to. If you don't do this you can cause a potentially unsafe condition in BOTH the Gen 1 and Gen 2. In your "photographic proof" of how "dangerous" the Gen 1 UMC is this could have just as easily been done with a Gen 2 UMC.
In fact, the car pictured in your "mic drop pic" happens to be a Model 3 if you look a the background. Gen 1 UMCs never came with the Model 3 so odds are pretty good that your picture actually proves my points that Gen 1 and Gen 2 possess equal potential for danger in the wrong hands and also that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're trying awfully hard to prove how much more dangerous Gen 1 UMCs are than Gen 2 UMCs to support your stance but it's just not the case.
I covered homemade adapters earlier in my post that some people create their own adapter kit to cover more uncommon outlets and most that go to that effort either 1) know what they're doing or 2) learn what it is they're doing because they understand the dangers of not knowing when you effectively remove/bypass safety features that the manufacturer put in. The idiot who knows not what he's doing and also doesn't take the time to educate himself on what he's doing and STILL bypasses safety features will is practicing a dangerous game that could end in burning himself, his car and house to the ground.
This is the same between Gen 1 and Gen 2 so saying otherwise is just more proof you're clueless. The most accurate things you've said are just paraphrasing things I already said.
You should just quit while you're behind. Every post you make you dig your hole deeper. I'd resist the urge to try to lash out and save face because you're only making things worse by supplying even more misinformation as fact.
