Yes, this is how Superchargers work. However, if you were operating a fleet of shuttle buses or delivery trucks (non-Tesla vehicles), what good would Superchargers do you? That's assuming you could even buy Superchargers to install at your facility. The discussion here is purely about choosing charging methods for medium duty commercial EVs. My position is that AC charging stations and on-board chargers are more viable and cost effective than DC charging systems that don't actually exist for the application. However, I'm sure that when Tesla enters the space, they will provide suitable DC charging equipment.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
We'll, of course solutions that aren't available are not suitable. If all you have is AC then that is what you use.
However, the Tesla semi will most likely have the same DCFC structure as the current Superchargers. This will be the most viable and cost effective solution.
EfficientWatts
Member
It's been a long time but J3068 is finally official
SAE International Releases New Specification (SAE J3068) for Charging of Medium and Heavy Duty Electric Vehicles
J3068: Electric Vehicle Power Transfer System Using a Three-Phase Capable Coupler - SAE International
It is for medium and heavy duty vehicles. I only really seeing it possibly appearing on the Tesla semi for the A/C part at least.
SAE International Releases New Specification (SAE J3068) for Charging of Medium and Heavy Duty Electric Vehicles
J3068: Electric Vehicle Power Transfer System Using a Three-Phase Capable Coupler - SAE International
It is for medium and heavy duty vehicles. I only really seeing it possibly appearing on the Tesla semi for the A/C part at least.
J3068 is mechanically the same as Type 2, aka "rest-of-the-world" plug for US. This is good news
J3068 is for AC Level2 charging, specifically, "3-phase level 2 AC charging".
So EXACTLY the same as EU Level 2 charging, just the voltages are different (therefore charging power vary).
It should be possible to use passive J3068 to J1772 adapter to charge regular US EV/PHEV with J3068 EVSE,
but only if one-phase voltage is under 250V.
EfficientWatts
Member
J3068 is mechanically the same as Type 2, aka "rest-of-the-world" plug for US. This is good news
J3068 is for AC Level2 charging, specifically, "3-phase level 2 AC charging".
So EXACTLY the same as EU Level 2 charging, just the voltages are different (therefore charging power vary).
It should be possible to use passive J3068 to J1772 adapter to charge regular US EV/PHEV with J3068 EVSE,
but only if one-phase voltage is under 250V.
And something I saw on the wiki article on j3068 (which refers to the spec but the spec is paywalled) is that j3068 is designed so that if a car without 3068 support is plugged in (euro car or a j1772 with some sort of adapter) then it will not charge to protect the car. i wonder if that would also apply if you were hooked up to 120/208Y, guess it depends on the charger and the mode its in (if its possible to run in non-3068 mode). something to note is that apparently for voltages above 250V or so the connector is hardwired, so no socket system ala europe for higher voltages.
in an ideal world, i kind of wished we used type 2 everywhere; maybe only single/3ph depending on region underlying, but the physical connector the same. and then of course ccs would be the same worldwide.
Tesla's onboard chargers are 3-phase capable and are supposed to be OK at 277V line to neutral, right? But the UMC is not OK with 277V.J3068 is mechanically the same as Type 2, aka "rest-of-the-world" plug for US. This is good news
J3068 is for AC Level2 charging, specifically, "3-phase level 2 AC charging".
So EXACTLY the same as EU Level 2 charging, just the voltages are different (therefore charging power vary).
It should be possible to use passive J3068 to J1772 adapter to charge regular US EV/PHEV with J3068 EVSE,
but only if one-phase voltage is under 250V.
Perhaps something portable could be built based on OpenEVSE.
That's the UMC, not the chargers in the car itself. There are components in the second-generation HPWC that are rated for 285V, but I have yet to see evidence that exceeding 285V will "make a bang"; it'd be pretty lousy design and manufacturing if that were so. But again, those are components of Tesla's EVSEs -- not the car's onboard chargers.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Standard practice is to design everything to withstand 600v. All wiring, components,etc. should survive 600v.
EfficientWatts
Member
So I learned a little bit in this thread that I had started a while back
EV Charging Expansion and Voltage Limitations
The components used in the Supercharger are apparently the same as the ones used in the onboard charger, just a lot more of them. And superchargers are rated for 380V-480V 3phase (so 220-277V L-N).
It was also observed that at least for Gen1 and Gen2 of the onboard chargers (not talking about the HPWC) do support the necessary voltage range for the american 277V single phase charging, and at least gen2 extended the range to 300V (unclear if was just labeling or internal change, as having some safety margin is necessary). The spec label was dropped on the newer 48/72Amp/3x24Amp chargers, so we don't know the input range anymore.
EV Charging Expansion and Voltage Limitations
The components used in the Supercharger are apparently the same as the ones used in the onboard charger, just a lot more of them. And superchargers are rated for 380V-480V 3phase (so 220-277V L-N).
It was also observed that at least for Gen1 and Gen2 of the onboard chargers (not talking about the HPWC) do support the necessary voltage range for the american 277V single phase charging, and at least gen2 extended the range to 300V (unclear if was just labeling or internal change, as having some safety margin is necessary). The spec label was dropped on the newer 48/72Amp/3x24Amp chargers, so we don't know the input range anymore.
The EV industry was very short sighted when it comes to the USA. 480/277vac 3ph is plentiful, and the EVSE for one would be just a little more expensive than our 1ph J1772 scheme. And a 480/277 3ph EVSE could accept all US voltages down to 1ph 120v. No transformers, thinner cables, fast speeds at low amps, what is not to love?
Nothing is free. What it increases is the cost and weight of the on-board charger.
But a 12ga wire will go 15amps continuous duty. This is common commercial wiring for exterior lighting and parking lots.
12.5kW L2 charging with cheap wire and cheap EVSE for any commercial parking lot or building.
Nothing is free. What it increases is the cost and weight of the on-board charger.
But a 12ga wire will go 15amps continuous duty. This is common commercial wiring for exterior lighting and parking lots.
12.5kW L2 charging with cheap wire and cheap EVSE for any commercial parking lot or building.
EfficientWatts
Member
For North America 3 phase 208Y/120V or 480Y/277V. (There's 600Y/347V but that's more so for parts of Canada and makes the range a bit too wide). Would be kind of hard to get good performance out of 208Y with onboard lower amperage chargers if you had 3 phase, hence that's why most of our commercial J1772 run off 208V 1p unless they have a 240V 1ph drop.
480Y/277V is what's used for Tesla Superchargers and DCFC.
Europe is more suited in that it's just 400Y/230V (+/- percentage) everywhere.
