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What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail
- Thread starter marlonjm2k
- Start date
Tesla has replaced batteries that experienced sudden, significant decrease in range due to lost module, etc.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
I would search here as there's at least one member who does battery pack refurb's and replacements that has received pretty solid reviews from those that has used his/their services.
dark cloud
Active Member
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
tpedwards
Member
I am having my 85 pack changed this week - Max Battery Charge Level Reduced or some such message. It was still driveable, but would not charge beyond 27% of already reduced capacity (due to software imposed "safety" limits). The question remains whether I will get a new pack or a refurb. I'm not sure what purpose a refurb serves if the point is to resolve issues from the pre-2016 85 kWh packs. They don't currently manufacture 85 kWh packs... and will my warranty remain the same as it is now expiring 8 years from the original sales date to the first owner?
I know this is an old-ish post, but I just want to understand
so are you saying pay cash for the car, instead of financing it (at a low rate) and taking the same amount of cash and investing it? Depreciation affects both scenarios, so no difference there.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
I know this is an old-ish post, but I just want to understand
so are you saying pay cash for the car, instead of financing it (at a low rate) and taking the same amount of cash and investing it? Depreciation affects both scenarios, so no difference there.
Correct. Many say something along the lines of "I can get an interest rate of 5% on the car and then invest the same cash in the market and make 10% which is a 5% profit" and think this is sound investment advice. What it doesn't account for is market corrections which we're due for. It also doesn't account for recessions or other unforeseen issues and many would also say we're due for some of these negative downturns as well. The only real debate is just how significant it will be. I digress. The point is that this is a risky proposition and most don't factor the potential risk associated with this advice.
The "many" used previously was done intentionally because "many" people also live paycheck to paycheck due to a history of poor financial decisions that seemed wise at the time. The few in this country that are truly wealthy don't do things like the scenario I painted in the previous paragraph. The tend to not finance depreciating items and avoid buying them entirely if possible.
Sure, you can risk it but many people have done this and failed the moment a hiccup comes along. If you can live life worry-free w/o any payments and then use your income for investment 100% free of monthly financial burdens it opens up a whole new world of opportunities. It frees you and allows you to enjoy life more rather than stressing about payments and bills and how you're going to make those obligations. This approach is priceless in terms of your overall mental health and long-term life happiness.
Just curious how many miles you had on your S before it went out? I'm at 190K and 8 years this dec and my full range is 209. It seems not to long before i have mine replaced.
As I mentioned previously, your suggestion of paying the car with cash in full completely ignores the concept of time value of money. Paying 100k in cash for a car today is not the same as paying 100k in 5 to 7 years from now (typical loan term for auto loans) after accounting for inflation.
Note my previous example...If you can get a 0.99% Tesla loan through Chase like they offered before, you will be better off than not taking the loan.... it's simple math. With a rate of 0.99%, it makes absolutely zero financial sense not to get the maximum loan amount that you qualify for and park those funds in a risk free CD paying 2% today. After doing the math you'll quickly realize that paying the car with cash in full today will end up costing you significantly more than taking the loan option. You will still have your piece of mind and can live life worry-free since you have the cash to pay off the car anytime but you simply choose to use your money in a far more economical/beneficial way.
There are quite a few financially healthy/savy people on this forum with the ability to purchase a car with cash. However it rarely makes sense to if you qualify for loans under the rate of inflation. Most people dont want to have 100k sitting in a checking account earning laughable interest rates when there are far better options out there.
tpedwards
Member
I had just over 100k miles, 4 years and 8 months. Overnight my range dropped from ~200 to about 40 miles. Charging complete on my phone even though SoC was 27%. It would not charge beyond 26% the next day.
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Also I need to add...some of the wealthiest billionaires in the world like Mark Zuckerberg still carry a 5 million dollar jumbo mortgage on his house in Palo Alto. Why does he do this? Because his rate is 1% which is less that the rate of inflation. In essence...its free money. Only financially illiterate individuals will pass on loans like this. Zuckerberg's 1% Mortgage: Why Does a Billionaire Need a Loan?
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Math? You're going to risk financial ruin for 1% difference? ROFL
You're building quite the house of cards for a point or two spread that could come tumbling down around you with the slightest curve ball life throws you.
Who said anything about letting the $100k sit in a checking account not making any money. What I'm talking about is living debt-free and being able to focus ALL of your efforts on investing and retirement... aka Financial Freedom. I worked in banking and I know what you're talking about all too well. We were paid commissions based on how well we could convince people to do exactly what you're talking about so that the bank could make profits from interest on loans. You don't have to explain anything you're saying to me as I made good money selling that BS to people in a previous life. I also know enough to know that it's not the path to financial freedom.
Talking about taking on a $1,500/mo car payment so you can finance a $100k car that will be worth less than $50k in four years that will cost you some $10k in interest even with a good rate so you can impress your neighbors is foolish. Trying to pass that off as sound financial advice is reckless.
Look... your example states that you're buying a $100k car no matter what. You're missing the simple point that I'm suggesting NOT even buying that car in the first place. That's the over-arching point I'm trying to make here and yet some people get SO tunnel visioned that you MUST buy that $100k car that will be worth less than $50k four short years later. Most people reading this post have ZERO business buying a brand new $100k car of ANY make/model and all financing does is allow them to make bigger mistakes.
From a financial standpoint, you really shouldn't EVER buy a big ticket item that depreciates the day you buy it endlessly until the day you sell it. Not from a financial standpoint anyway. This isn't feasible in the year 2020 in America. So... how do you minimize this exposure to loss? You buy the cheapest thing you can to get you and you do NOT finance it. You then save more cash and plan to buy something slightly nicer down the road. Do this a few times and you'll be up to a nice 4 or 5 year-old used Tesla, payment-free.
Once you finance not only do you end up buying more than you should but you also now are paying interest to a lending institution. On top of that, you're now likely buying a newer car and the newer the car the faster the rate of depreciation. That's all in a best case scenario too. If you lose your job or something crazy happens... that's when most people have the financial rug pulled out from under them.
If you're not leveraged at all you're laughing on you way to the beach while others are contemplating gargling with a shotgun. Go ask anyone who was leveraged heavily in 2008 how that worked out for them.
Finance assets when the numbers make sense and buy liabilities with cash only when you have to. This advice is the most sound financial advice I can give anyone. You won't be a millionaire by 30 but you also won't be on the streets at 31 if you play the game that way.
Let me guess, you're also that guy who recommends people taking out cash advances on credit cards to invest in the stock market?
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
You just proved my point. He financed an appreciating asset. He's also worth billions so he's earned the ability to dabble in things like this because, comparatively speaking, it's like a person with an average income buying a Frosty. Relativity is key.
A car isn't an asset. It's a liability and it depreciates. This is why I said this in my last post:
Finance assets when the numbers make sense and buy liabilities with cash only when you have to.
I used bold text on the important words that that go together. Paying cash for liabilities tends to make you take pause to more carefully consider what it is you're buying and if you really need it in the first place or could you get by with something that costs less. Human nature is to think more when dropping actual greenbacks on it versus just singing a few documents with small text numbers on them.
In your example Mark Zuckerberg financed an appreciating asset.
When you factor the cost of depreciation of the vehicle (50% spread over about 4 years) your 1% positive difference is quickly dwarfed by negative depreciation.
My analysis was based on the assumption that a Tesla is simply a toy for which the buyer has plently of disposable income to spend. I would never recommend anyone to purchase a 100k vehicle unless they have the money to spend freely after all other neccessary financial obligations have already been met. You'd be absolutely insane (IMO) to buy a 100k car if you have student loans, credit card debt...or even a mortgage. No one needs a tesla...we simply want it. So assuming that we are retired and wealthy with plenty if disposable income with no liabilities I still want to get the tesla the cheapest possible way. My way beats your way every single time. And the amount I save assuming 2.5% inflation rate is about 7k... it's cool if you dont want that 7k...I do
