What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail

[whitex]

FUSC isn't a warranty.

Tesla is bending a lot of laws lately but Magnuson Moss is the largest one they shouldn't mess with.

Have you heard of Tesla declaring that the yellow screens in cars as new as 6 months old are not covered under warranty? They told me that for my wife's car - apparently exposing the screen to sunlight or oxygen makes this a wear and tear issue, therefore not covered (Tesla's own interpretation of the same text was that it was covered, until it turned out many cars needed it and it would affect the profitability). Another example, coincidentally including the very same 8 year warranty in question here:
Please Help! Drive unit seal not covered under warranty as part of drive unit??

All batteries are exposed to road dust, rain, varying outside temperatures, etc, so what makes you think that since they got away with degraded (yellow) screens it wouldn't make them try the same with degraded batteries? Or maybe they will cover the battery degradation but not the BMS, or the coolant system and its seals, or the soldered interconnect for each of the 4 thousands cells?

 

[whitex]

This "FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them" is misleading. The terms that specified whether FUSC was transferable for any one car was spelled out with the purchase. I remember distinctly when the policy was changed for new purchases (in late 2016/early 2017). It is also stated in the owner's Tesla account. Cars sold by Tesla certainly no longer carry transferable FUSC.

Except that they are removing FUSC from pre-2016 cars when sold through 3rd party dealers (with Tesla never in the ownership chain after initial sale), so not honoring the terms of when they were originally purchased.

 

[Chaserr]

Have you heard of Tesla declaring that the yellow screens in cars as new as 6 months old are not covered under warranty? They told me that for my wife's car - apparently exposing the screen to sunlight or oxygen makes this a wear and tear issue, therefore not covered (Tesla's own interpretation of the same text was that it was covered, until it turned out a lot of cars needed it). Another example, coincidentally including the very same 8 year warranty in question here:
Please Help! Drive unit seal not covered under warranty as part of drive unit??

All batteries are exposed to road dust, rain, varying outside temperatures, etc, so what makes you think that since they got away with degraded (yellow) screens it wouldn't make them try the same with degraded batteries? Or maybe they will cover the battery degradation but not the BMS, or the coolant system and its seals, or the soldered interconnect for each of the 4 thousands cells?

I'm not questioning Tesla breaks the law all of the time when it comes to warranty - my car is batterygated, I've experienced it. I'm just pointing out that FUSC isn't warranty. FUSC is a physical part of the car. A part they legally and illegally remove, while warranty is something they simply can't remove. They break that law all of the time, but it can't be removed unlike components of the car whose owner can remove them.

 

[whitex]

The terms have not changed, however, Tesla is taking away FUSC from older cars when they buy them back. No different than if they were to remove the wheels and put on cheap steel ones or if they were to remove the back seat. As long as they make it clear when the resell it.

Except for the cars they took away FUSC without buying them first. Yes, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but that is the new stated policy - all cars with transferable FUSC lose FUSC if sold through 3rd party dealer. Welcome to the new, profitable Tesla.

 

[whitex]

This "FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them" is misleading. The terms that specified whether FUSC was transferable for any one car was spelled out with the purchase. I remember distinctly when the policy was changed for new purchases (in late 2016/early 2017). It is also stated in the owner's Tesla account. Cars sold by Tesla certainly no longer carry transferable FUSC.

The terms have not changed, however, Tesla is taking away FUSC from older cars when they buy them back. No different than if they were to remove the wheels and put on cheap steel ones or if they were to remove the back seat. As long as they make it clear when the resell it.

Apparently Tesla has a new policy (and yes, what Tesla employees tell you is Tesla policy, lacking any more reliable sources) - no more transferable FUSC at all (No more free unlimited supercharging for some used Tesla vehicles). Ha! All those fanboys tried to tell me that it was totally benign when Tesla removed the wording "transferable" from FUSC on people's Tesla accounts (including mine) - it looks like they did this on purpose, even if the sole purpose was so that their own employees interpret all FUSC as non-transferable but they would have legal deniability for the odd case when someone does go to court - "we never changed the policy, only changed the website, and our employees made their own independent interpretation".

 

[aaron0k]

New warranty:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 150,000 miles , whichever comes first).

What is special about the original 60k packs that merits calling it out in the warranty? Compared to the original 85 packs?

It seems they increased coverage on the 60 pack from 125,000 to 150,000? However, if this new warranty is for new purchases; does this only apply to CPO 60's?

 

[whitex]

I'm not questioning Tesla breaks the law all of the time when it comes to warranty - my car is batterygated, I've experienced it. I'm just pointing out that FUSC isn't warranty. FUSC is a physical part of the car. A part they legally and illegally remove, while warranty is something they simply can't remove. They break that law all of the time, but it can't be removed unlike components of the car whose owner can remove them.

My post you were replying to did not mention FUSC anymore. I gave you 2 examples of WARRANTY completely independent of FUSC - - screen WARRANTY and drive unit WARRANTY which have changed recently (yellowing of the screen is no longer covered and apparently neither are drive unit seals). Those examples show they change warranty too, similar to FUSC, but having nothing at all to do with FUSC - the similarity is how they change the terms without regard to what it was before (or by "clarifying" using some obscure play on words).

 

[whitex]

Just to add, there are a few people here (for example @MP3Mike who diligently follows my posts to disagree with them ) who strongly believe that all these changes are just made up by Tesla employees and not official Tesla policy. Sadly, even if those people were right (though I am still not clear what makes an official Tesla policy vs. one enforced by Tesla employees), it makes no difference to a customer when they are refused warranty coverage, or when Tesla is charging their credit card for supercharging and refusing to wave those charges.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Right. I see.

So instead of financing the eight Model S's we've purchased since 2013, we should have paid cash.

Really?

Then how would we have become Teslanaires almost twice over?

Sometimes internet financial advice is worth what you pay for it: nothing.

Use your credit union and cross shop others to get the lowest interest rates. When money is cheap and on "sale," buy money . . . .

If you had to finance 8 Teslas to own them then yes.. you shouldn't have bought them. Why is this such a difficult concept for so many people to grasp. Just because our government spends even when it doesn't have money doesn't mean it's a good lesson for the rest of us. Anyone who has accrued substantial financial wealth will tell you that this route is not conducive to that goal. Nobody NEEDS a brand new $150k Tesla. Nobody. Especially when it will be worth $50k in about 4-5 years costing you over $100k in depreciation. That doesn't even factory in the $10k in interest for that "deal" you got on "buying the money" to finance the loser.

The smart money is buying the 4-5 year old car that's 90% of the $150k car and that has already depreciated to below $50k for cash. If you can't afford to pay cash for that car then you need to shop for cheaper used cars that do fit your cash budget and continue saving and investing your money. That is sound financial advice.

If all you want to do is live for today and throw away boat loads of money supporting financial institutions just so you can keep up with your neighbors then by all means, that's your decision to make. Just don't come here trying to defend it or convince others it's the proper financial decision if long-term wealth is what you're working towards. Anyone who has arrived at that conclusion making such foolish financial decisions has done it in spite of their actions and not because of them.

Take out your calculator and see how much you've lost in depreciation and interest over the span of those 8 brand new Teslas. No emotion, no fudging the numbers to suit your narrative. Just simple math. Behold the reason why the fleecing of society to convince us all we need loans for everything just to keep our fragile economy buoyant another year is so destructive to so many.

Why are some so bent on continuing this conversation in this thread?

 

[SSedan]

What is special about the original 60k packs that merits calling it out in the warranty? Compared to the original 85 packs?

It seems they increased coverage on the 60 pack from 125,000 to 150,000? However, if this new warranty is for new purchases; does this only apply to CPO 60's?

The 60 packs were discounted, the longer warranty cost not baked into the purchase price.
Far as extending the warranty from 125 to 150 probably try to delay more out of warranty repairs while they sort out batterygate.

 

[MP3Mike]

The 60 packs were discounted, the longer warranty cost not baked into the purchase price.
Far as extending the warranty from 125 to 150 probably try to delay more out of warranty repairs while they sort out batterygate.

They didn't change, or extend, the warranty on the 60 packs. Whoever updated the web site just screwed up. You have to look at the actual legal warranty document which just says the warranty in effect at the time of your purchase is what you have. (Or words similar to that.)

 

[mongo]

They didn't change, or extend, the warranty on the 60 packs. Whoever updated the web site just screwed up. You have to look at the actual legal warranty document which just says the warranty in effect at the time of your purchase is what you have. (Or words similar to that.)

see Post 219

 

[TSLA Pilot]

If you had to finance 8 Teslas to own them then yes.. you shouldn't have bought them. Why is this such a difficult concept for so many people to grasp. Just because our government spends even when it doesn't have money doesn't mean it's a good lesson for the rest of us. Anyone who has accrued substantial financial wealth will tell you that this route is not conducive to that goal. Nobody NEEDS a brand new $150k Tesla. Nobody. Especially when it will be worth $50k in about 4-5 years costing you over $100k in depreciation. That doesn't even factory in the $10k in interest for that "deal" you got on "buying the money" to finance the loser.

The smart money is buying the 4-5 year old car that's 90% of the $150k car and that has already depreciated to below $50k for cash. If you can't afford to pay cash for that car then you need to shop for cheaper used cars that do fit your cash budget and continue saving and investing your money. That is sound financial advice.

If all you want to do is live for today and throw away boat loads of money supporting financial institutions just so you can keep up with your neighbors then by all means, that's your decision to make. Just don't come here trying to defend it or convince others it's the proper financial decision if long-term wealth is what you're working towards. Anyone who has arrived at that conclusion making such foolish financial decisions has done it in spite of their actions and not because of them.

Take out your calculator and see how much you've lost in depreciation and interest over the span of those 8 brand new Teslas. No emotion, no fudging the numbers to suit your narrative. Just simple math. Behold the reason why the fleecing of society to convince us all we need loans for everything just to keep our fragile economy buoyant another year is so destructive to so many.

Why are some so bent on continuing this conversation in this thread?

OMG.

You still don't get it.

You wrote:

"Take out your calculator and see how much you've lost in depreciation and interest over the span of those 8 brand new Teslas."

First, while nearly all of the MS's were new, that's not relevant here.

Second, what IS relevant is that we've helped Tesla make more sales goals and helped populate the planet with EV's.

Third, the depreciation loss on the sold Teslas is of little consequence when compared to the jaw-dropping gains the value of our TSLA shares have enjoyed, and will likely continue to enjoy.

With now seven-figure TSLA asset values, do you think we care about the five- or six-figures "lost" in depreciation of cars that have brought us joy on every drive, while also being used to demonstrate what EV life is like to so many people? (We have ten referrals so far, and likely more that aren't logged.)

Likewise, our Teslas go quite well with our SolarCity/Tesla solar panels. For example, over the past year we have spent a UNDER $13 (for the entire year) to power both our home and the two MS's in the garage. Nothing like leading by example when our entire planet's future is at risk!

Your posts do, however, serve as an excellent example of why most should strongly avoid getting investment advice from strangers on the internet . . . .

 

[robertmanning]

?

Arent there some 85 and 90 kwh packs in non air suspension cars? Also I dont have air suspension and I have a 75kwh battery in my S60. I don't really think the weight difference will make be a huge deal.

Just had my S60 pack fail that is being replaced under warranty. When I asked the Service Center if we could pay to have a larger battery installed they told me that they are not doing upgrades at this time.

 

[robertmanning]

OMG.

You still don't get it.

You wrote:

"Take out your calculator and see how much you've lost in depreciation and interest over the span of those 8 brand new Teslas."

First, while nearly all of the MS's were new, that's not relevant here.

Second, what IS relevant is that we've helped Tesla make more sales goals and helped populate the planet with EV's.

Third, the depreciation loss on the sold Teslas is of little consequence when compared to the jaw-dropping gains the value of our TSLA shares have enjoyed, and will likely continue to enjoy.

With now seven-figure TSLA asset values, do you think we care about the five- or six-figures "lost" in depreciation of cars that have brought us joy on every drive, while also being used to demonstrate what EV life is like to so many people? (We have ten referrals so far, and likely more that aren't logged.)

Likewise, our Teslas go quite well with our SolarCity/Tesla solar panels. For example, over the past year we have spent a UNDER $13 (for the entire year) to power both our home and the two MS's in the garage. Nothing like leading by example when our entire planet's future is at risk!

Your posts do, however, serve as an excellent example of why most should strongly avoid getting investment advice from strangers on the internet . . . .

The point the "financial advice" person was making is that you would still have all of your TSLA asset values and your solar panels AND another $100 to $150 thousand in your pocket if you had purchase 8 pre-owned Teslas that already hit the bottom of their depreciation curve. It IS sound financial advice not to buy a new car because they depreciate so quickly. No non-internet financial advisor would tell you otherwise.

 

[whitex]

When I asked the Service Center if we could pay to have a larger battery installed they told me that they are not doing upgrades at this time.

Of course. Elon promised paid battery upgrades only 5 years ago or so. It's way to soon to expect it today.

 

[robertmanning]

Of course. Elon promised paid battery upgrades only 5 years ago or so. It's way to soon to expect it today.

ha ha. True!

 

[robertmanning]

Just got my car back today after having my 2014 Model S 60 battery pack replaced. Range looked low so I charged it to 100% tonight and the range is 173 miles.

Any suggestions on what to do with that? I also have not received a service invoice.

 

[MP3Mike]

Just got my car back today after having my 2014 Model S 60 battery pack replaced. Range looked low so I charged it to 100% tonight and the range is 173 miles.

What was your 100% charge before the prior pack failed? If it was higher than this you just need to go back to Tesla and show them that their warranty says that any replacement pack will have as much or more range as the pack it replaced prior to the failure and demand a new replacement. (You could try running it below 20% and charging it back up to see if that helps, but I would put much hope in that.)

 

[Newscutter]

Of course. Elon promised paid battery upgrades only 5 years ago or so. It's way to soon to expect it today.

Let a couple $25,000 battery replacement stories hit the mass media and it'll ding new car sales just as surely as a couple spontaneous combustion stories... especially with the newer skimpier warranties.

I would think it is in Tesla's best interest (and the future of EV adoption) to formalize prices on replacements/upgrades.

It would make owners less anxious, would increase residual values and removes potential product liability and bad media coverage for Tesla to get as many old batteries out of circulation as possible (given fire concerns re: NHTSA investigation into BMS/heat management of the older packs).

At the very least, get the failed batteries out of circulation with owners' happiness intact if you won't/can't sell the upgrades proactively.