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What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail

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Correct. Many say something along the lines of "I can get an interest rate of 5% on the car and then invest the same cash in the market and make 10% which is a 5% profit" and think this is sound investment advice. What it doesn't account for is market corrections which we're due for. It also doesn't account for recessions or other unforeseen issues and many would also say we're due for some of these negative downturns as well. The only real debate is just how significant it will be. I digress. The point is that this is a risky proposition and most don't factor the potential risk associated with this advice.

The "many" used previously was done intentionally because "many" people also live paycheck to paycheck due to a history of poor financial decisions that seemed wise at the time. The few in this country that are truly wealthy don't do things like the scenario I painted in the previous paragraph. The tend to not finance depreciating items and avoid buying them entirely if possible.

Sure, you can risk it but many people have done this and failed the moment a hiccup comes along. If you can live life worry-free w/o any payments and then use your income for investment 100% free of monthly financial burdens it opens up a whole new world of opportunities. It frees you and allows you to enjoy life more rather than stressing about payments and bills and how you're going to make those obligations. This approach is priceless in terms of your overall mental health and long-term life happiness.

Right. I see.

So instead of financing the eight Model S's we've purchased since 2013, we should have paid cash.

Really?

Then how would we have become Teslanaires almost twice over?

Sometimes internet financial advice is worth what you pay for it: nothing.

Use your credit union and cross shop others to get the lowest interest rates. When money is cheap and on "sale," buy money . . . .
 
Hopefully they will say the same for folks claiming unlimited mileage who purchased before Jan 29, 2020. I suspect they want to just "lose" the old text of the warranty, and anyone claiming unlimited mileage will be told the same as folks with yellow screens - warranty is what is shown on the website, we don't know what old version you're talking about, latest always applies. Why else would they be mentioning 60KWh batteries in warranty which only applies as of Jan 29,2020? Unless your theory is that they are bringing back the S60.

The current warranty document doesn't even mention the 60...
 
Hopefully they will say the same for folks claiming unlimited mileage who purchased before Jan 29, 2020. I suspect they want to just "lose" the old text of the warranty, and anyone claiming unlimited mileage will be told the same as folks with yellow screens - warranty is what is shown on the website, we don't know what old version you're talking about, latest always applies.

Yeah, except for that whole idea being, you know, obviously and flagrantly against the law. There is no changing of warranty terms after the execution of the contract. It’s simple.
 
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The current warranty document doesn't even mention the 60...
I stand corrected. I must have been looking at an older version of it online (a couple of days ago). The text I see now says warranty is based on date of purchase, though it does not clarify if that means date of original sale, or does every re-sale resets the purchase date (so for example a 2019 MS sold as used today would get its warranty limited to 150K miles and now have the software loophole). Tesla could have made it clear and base it on manufacture date (instead of ambiguous "purchase date") like the rest of the industry, but they didn't, so there must be a reason. Yea I know that might seem like nit picking, but I still have the car Tesla sold me with 691hp, only to clarify a couple of years later that the number only applies to the theoretical motor capabilities had it been installed in a different car with a better battery and drive unit (there was no other hp number listed for P85D either) - the hp they actually delivered would have needed a 50% boost to reach the advertised number. They did similar sleazy re-interpretation of their own words with lifetime transferable Free Unlimited Supercharging too. With Tesla you always have to assume literal meaning and that if they leave possible interpretation loophole, they will likely use it to their advantage.
 
I can see why legacy automakers are so conservative with their ranges and paranoid about reserving battery capacity. The Tesla cult has afforded them a lot of latitude but people would not be so forgiving to brands like Ford, Porsche, etc. when it comes to battery degradation and loss of range...
 
Yeah, except for that whole idea being, you know, obviously and flagrantly against the law. There is no changing of warranty terms after the execution of the contract. It’s simple.
Yeah, except for that whole idea being, you know, obviously and flagrantly against the law. There is no changing of warranty terms after the execution of the contract. It’s simple.

Fortunately, as you'll see from the article, this new warranty only applies to new cars purchased after that date.

Older cars have their original warranty.
 
I can see why legacy automakers are so conservative with their ranges and paranoid about reserving battery capacity. The Tesla cult has afforded them a lot of latitude but people would not be so forgiving to brands like Ford, Porsche, etc. when it comes to battery degradation and loss of range...

Tesla's (new) 8 year/150K warranty for S&X is still better than the competition.
 
I can see why legacy automakers are so conservative with their ranges and paranoid about reserving battery capacity. The Tesla cult has afforded them a lot of latitude but people would not be so forgiving to brands like Ford, Porsche, etc. when it comes to battery degradation and loss of range...
While I generally agree, I also know that early Tesla owners have been somewhat forgiving, but also have dealt with reality. Reserving battery capacity may appease a broader audience, but isn't this kicking the can down the road? What happens several years down the road when the inevitable degradation occurs and the reserve will no longer mask those ill effects?
 
Capping doesn't mask degradation effects. Degradation happens whether a battery is capped or not and a capped battery still loses usable range to degradation.

The cap is just limiting 100% volts, so when degradation occurs - capped or uncapped - 100% capacity is lowered. On a capped battery, Displayed "100%" is lowered to something like 80% of actual 100% but that just resets the voltage that is used to display 100%. Degraded batteries don't increase 100% charge volts upwards to true 100% to compensate. They still charge to the capped "100%" voltage but that 100% decreases as capacity degrades.

What the caps do is limit depth of charge or discharge (Tesla has played with additional capping on the bottom as well as top) to limit stress on the battery. If it's factory, the battery should last longer. If it's added after purchase it's not legal, and in the cases where it has been done illegally it was probably added as an emergency safety measure.
 
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While I generally agree, I also know that early Tesla owners have been somewhat forgiving, but also have dealt with reality. Reserving battery capacity may appease a broader audience, but isn't this kicking the can down the road? What happens several years down the road when the inevitable degradation occurs and the reserve will no longer mask those ill effects?

Exactly! By that time, it's out of warranty so the manufacturer is off the hook and it's the responsibility of the current owner to deal with those issues and any related expenses.

I think Tesla owners are getting more informed about things like range calculations, battery degradation, charge curves, etc. which is why Tesla has to now be so very specific in their warranty terms. I think other manufacturers will have similar terms in their warranties and in addition will mask any degradation issues by holding back capacity to reduce warranty claims, even at the expense of range.
 
Fortunately, as you'll see from the article, this new warranty only applies to new cars purchased after that date.

Older cars have their original warranty.
What if the older car is sold as used today, does the new or old warranty apply? Which "purchase date" counts, the original, or latest? If the original, why didn't they just make it a production date like the rest of the industry?
 
Capping doesn't mask degradation effects. Degradation happens whether a battery is capped or not and a capped battery still loses usable range to degradation.
Charging the battery to 100% causes higher degradation. Preventing customers from doing so, prevents this degradation. Therefore, capping the battery, indirectly prevents the higher degradation. Battery capping also solves the problem of people slow supercharging at 3KW to get the last few miles out of the battery (the Taycan starts at well over 200KW but even towards the 90% it still charges at 80KW).
 
Few of us were daily charging to 100%. All of us downgraded are deeper discharging, because we have to to drive the same distance. Hypothetical for someone versus real for everyone means degradation is increased from deeper discharged batteries due to the cap.

It was never capped for degradation though. Tesla never made that assertion it's just a hypothesis someone came up with on their own.

What if the older car is sold as used today, does the new or old warranty apply? Which "purchase date" counts, the original, or latest? If the original, why didn't they just make it a production date like the rest of the industry?

Both apply, they can't remove an existing warranty but they can offer a better one than just the remainder of factory warranty.
 
Both apply, they can't remove an existing warranty but they can offer a better one than just the remainder of factory warranty.
Not true with FUSC. When resold via 3rd party dealer, you don't get the free unlimited supercharging originally sold with the car AND some credit which comes with new cars - you get no free supercharging at all. Tesla plays by its own rules, which it changes for its own gain (FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them).
 
Not true with FUSC. When resold via 3rd party dealer, you don't get the free unlimited supercharging originally sold with the car AND some credit which comes with new cars - you get no free supercharging at all. Tesla plays by its own rules, which it changes for its own gain (FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them).
This "FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them" is misleading. The terms that specified whether FUSC was transferable for any one car was spelled out with the purchase. I remember distinctly when the policy was changed for new purchases (in late 2016/early 2017). It is also stated in the owner's Tesla account. Cars sold by Tesla certainly no longer carry transferable FUSC.
 
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This "FUSC used to be fully transferrable, through 3rd parties or not, but with the profit kick Elon is on, they changed the original terms and count on that nobody will sue them" is misleading. The terms that specified whether FUSC was transferable for any one car was spelled out with the purchase. I remember distinctly when the policy was changed for new purchases (in late 2016/early 2017). It is also stated in the owner's Tesla account. Cars sold by Tesla certainly no longer carry transferable FUSC.

The terms have not changed, however, Tesla is taking away FUSC from older cars when they buy them back. No different than if they were to remove the wheels and put on cheap steel ones or if they were to remove the back seat. As long as they make it clear when the resell it.
 
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I can see why legacy automakers are so conservative with their ranges and paranoid about reserving battery capacity. The Tesla cult has afforded them a lot of latitude but people would not be so forgiving to brands like Ford, Porsche, etc. when it comes to battery degradation and loss of range...
The legacy auto makers probably knew Tesla was pushing the batteries when they did their bench marking and tear downs.
 
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