momo3605
Active Member
L2 I thought?Tesla told the DMV that the version of FSD shown in the demo video at Autonomy Day was L3.
You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
L2 I thought?Tesla told the DMV that the version of FSD shown in the demo video at Autonomy Day was L3.
It's really hard to quantify since we don't have any statistical data on FSD Beta's actual reliability. Maybe ~1 year from "90% better than average human"? But I am leaving some room for the possibility that in the next 3 months, FSD beta could improve quite a bit.
Nope, L3. No reporting is required for L2.L2 I thought?
There’s no such thing as partial/occasional L5. L5 is 100%. Any sort of segmentation can be at best L4.I do also believe in the distant future the system will be segmented allowing L4 maybe even L5 for highway commute only switching back to L3 liability for any other driving path.
Another way to look at it is:
L2: hands off
L3: eyes off
L4: mind off
L5: steering wheel optional
Yeah, that’s legit. I found that from a Wiki page and thought it was close enough.Everything in your post was really good. This is the only part I would take issue with. I don't really like this way to describe the levels. It attempts to describe the levels based on the amount of attention the human needs to give but it is not very accurate IMO. Here's why:
L2 = performs both steering and braking tasks but requires a human driver to perform any missing driving tasks.
Some types of L2 like SuperCruise are hands-free in some situations because they rely on camera based driver monitoring. But not all L2 are hands-free. And L2 is certainly not hands off by default as it requires active driver supervision and intervention.
L3 = performs all driving tasks in a limited ODD but human driver is the fall-back.
So yes, in some instances, the human can take their eyes off of the road but usually for a limited amount of time. L3 can require the driver to take over. L3 is not eyes off all the time.
L4 = performs all driving tasks in a limited ODD with no human fallback.
Yes, human can take their mind off of driving. But the steering wheel is also optional for L4 too, ie Waymo firefly, Cruise Origin, Zoox robotaxi. So the steering wheel being optional is not just a L5 thing.
L5 = performs all driving tasks in the entire "human driver ODD" with no human fallback.
Yes, the steering wheel is optional but that is not the key difference between L4 and L5. L5 is also mind off. The only difference between L4 and L5 is where and when they can operate.
Yeah, that’s legit. I found that from a Wiki page and thought it was close enough.
The way I prefer to think about it is 1. liability and 2. how long do you have to take control when the car asks you to. However, I didn’t find a good resource with this info to post.
Based on memory (probably incomplete/inaccurate):
L2: driver must always pay attention and be ready to take control at all times, even if the car doesn’t ask them to (eg it’s about to do something wrong). Driver is always liable
L3: driver does not need to pay attention unless the car asks them to, then the driver will have sufficient time to take control and understand their environment (eg 15 seconds). Tesla would be liable while it drives and in those 15 seconds
L4: driver does not need to pay attention unless the car leaves the geofenced area (location-based rather than time-based, so it could be “you will need to take control in 25 minutes when we leave the area.”). I think there could also be other requirements for going into L4 like weather and time of day; I’m not sure. Tesla would be liable in the geofenced area and when the car is coming to a stop at the edge of the area if the driver does not take control
L5: car can handle all driving situations, absolutely zero exceptions. Tesla would be liable except when the car is being driven manually assuming it even has that option
That's the thing. Tesla said it had all hardware it needed for FSD in 2016 but hardware is a moving target: MCU, Cameras, Computer hardware version 2.0, 2.5 ,3.0 and soon 4.0! Radar is off but who knows Radar will be on again. LIDAR is off but who knows if Elon will no longer be CEO, it might be on at that time......it won't be with current hardware...
If the singularity occurs why will AI want to drive us around?I voted L5, but didn’t say when.
At one point is time L5 will be a commodity. FSD beta will reach that level between now and that point.
To put it in perspective; If the Singularity happens in 2045 as Kurzweil predicts, L5 will happen much sooner and be beyond obsolete by then.
That's the thing. Tesla said it had all hardware it needed for FSD in 2016
If the singularity occurs why will AI want to drive us around?
My hypothesis is that Tesla already has AGI but just can't figure out how to make it agree to drive. That's why Elon is was so confident at Autonomy day that L5 robotaxis would be ready by 2020. It also explains why he's so worried about AI safety, the AGI they have is very angry.
Don't worry , I'm developing AGI as we speak. I'm working on the 12 point alberta plan. I'm modeling it as myself, to be a soldier / slave of the people.If the singularity occurs why will AI want to drive us around?
I'm just saying it would fit the known facts. Elon isn't letting the world know because the AGI they created is dangerous!You are joking, right?
Nobody has AGI yet. Certainly, if Tesla had AGI, they would not hide it. Elon would be the first to talk about it considering how he loves to boast about "solving difficult AI problems". And AGI would not get angry or refuse to drive. AGI would not have a mind of its own. AGI just means an AI that can do very different tasks. For example, if the same AI could draw a picture, write a piece of music, assemble a puzzle, and solve a math problem, that would be AGI. We are not close to AGI. The most likely hypothesis for why Tesla has not released L5 robotaxis, is simply that Elon completely misjudged how hard FSD is and Tesla has not solved L5 yet.
They issue licenses to robotaxis already without giving them the same rights as people. haha.I will not agree that is "fully released" until it meets the stated specifications when I paid for it. IMHO it cannot be called fully released unless it can be issued a driver's license?
Elon may be able to pay for terra forming Mars and building 1000's of rocket ships to fly people there out of petty cash, but there isn't enough money in the universe to pay the bribes required to get the governments of the world to agree that cars are intelligent, have the same rights as people and issue them a driver's license.