What's going to be at the 2014 NAIAS Tesla exhibit?

[chickensevil]

I put the word in quotes because they have no other word for what they are doing. That is the official term for anything of this nature. However, recall generally has a very negative connotation attached to it for something that was not a design flaw on Tesla's product. cwerdna, in your examples listed, these were all things that had to be changed/replaced/fixed per regulations or design flaws. There is nothing technically wrong with the adapter.

So why the melting or the garage fire? Because of faulty wiring inside the house. Since Tesla can't control the wiring in your house, they are trying to do their part to protect the customer (and ultimately their image... because there is a lot of negative press here) by putting in additional safegards to try to prevent your faulty house wiring from melting the cables or burning down your house.

In the technical sense this is a recall. But it is not on the same level that we have ever seen (to my knowledge). I do appreciate your examples, and I think the closest one would be the manual phone number issue, but even that one had to be recalled because they (Honda) messed up, and had to change it per regulations.

Maybe I have been drinking the Tesla koolaid too much on this one? It is really good though, you should try some

 

[Chickenlittle]

I put the word in quotes because they have no other word for what they are doing. That is the official term for anything of this nature. However, recall generally has a very negative connotation attached to it for something that was not a design flaw on Tesla's product. cwerdna, in your examples listed, these were all things that had to be changed/replaced/fixed per regulations or design flaws. There is nothing technically wrong with the adapter.

So why the melting or the garage fire? Because of faulty wiring inside the house. Since Tesla can't control the wiring in your house, they are trying to do their part to protect the customer (and ultimately their image... because there is a lot of negative press here) by putting in additional safegards to try to prevent your faulty house wiring from melting the cables or burning down your house.

In the technical sense this is a recall. But it is not on the same level that we have ever seen (to my knowledge). I do appreciate your examples, and I think the closest one would be the manual phone number issue, but even that one had to be recalled because they (Honda) messed up, and had to change it per regulations.

Maybe I have been drinking the Tesla koolaid too much on this one? It is really good though, you should try some

i think its time to move on and debate how many angels can fit on the head of a pin

 

[AnOutsider]

Agreed with chicken. This isn't about the software, so saying a gps change is a recall is missing the point. They are replacing faulty charge connectors. A physical object with known defects.

As for never receiving a recall in the mail? My child is not yet 2 years old and we've had manufacturers mail us things from 2 products that were "updated for safety" (yes even toys get recalled).

It's a recall and the model s is no less of a great car because of it.

 

[adiggs]

i think its time to move on and debate how many angels can fit on the head of a pin

Three! Everyone knows its three, and you're just wrong to say otherwise.

:tongue:

 

[Twiddler]

Soooooo any news/ideas remaining about that locked and turned off model S on display? There HAS to be a reason for this, right? I mean, they would not spend the money to display a car and then have it non accessible. Does anyone (besides me) think that Elon is planning another squeeze, unveiling whatever goodies that the vehicle has in store tomorrow, after all of the upgrades, etc today?

 

[100thMonkey]

Over the air is not a recall, it's an update. And there actually will always be updates, and that is a good thing.

I agree that the software part is an update, and I'd also agree that it could be argued that the "recall" is of the adapter, not the car, but I don't think one can argue that Tesla is merely updating the adapter as a precaution, given how many of them have been over heating. I commend Tesla for acting in time, before much more serious occurrences took place. I'm glad we get to argue about the definition of a "recall" rather than continue to hear stories of people saying things like "I have to use an oven mitt to unplug my UMC, is that normal?". the UMC was, IMHO, a ticking time bomb that is now diffused. The plus side is that Tesla has learned how to combine software and hardware to assure that issues with either a malfunctioning UMC or bad wiring in the plug/house get caught before a more serious issue arises. It's these kinds of things that are critical to the teething process of bringing EV's to mass market and surely it's this kind of stuff that will in the long run give Tesla the edge over just about everyone else. Telsa listens, Tesla Adapts quickly!!!

 

[Discoducky]

Soooooo any news/ideas remaining about that locked and turned off model S on display? There HAS to be a reason for this, right? I mean, they would not spend the money to display a car and then have it non accessible. Does anyone (besides me) think that Elon is planning another squeeze, unveiling whatever goodies that the vehicle has in store tomorrow, after all of the upgrades, etc today?

While it is probably nothing I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't neeeeeeed to know

 

[techmaven]

I'm fine with the NEMA 14-50 upgrade being called a recall. I think Musk and Tesla should have owned it:

"Yes, we decided to implement a recall for the NEMA 14-50 adapters. Very few of these adapters have had an issue, but we decided to look at the situation again and found that there was something that we could do to help insure the safety of our customers. Therefore, we are upgrading the NEMA 14-50 adapters for existing customers with this additional safety enhancement for free. This action was probably unnecessary, but with an abundance of caution, we felt this was the right thing to do for our customers. In addition, since much of our car's behavior can be upgraded over the air or through the internet, we sent out an additional enhancement to cars to help detect electrical problems that might affect charging. We will continue to refine the features and the behavior of the car into the future in this manner. We let NHTSA know that we have decided to take these actions to help safeguard our customers even in some situations where our equipment is not at fault."

And then Mr. Musk could have gone onto CNBC and owned the recall, instead of being defensive. He could then talk about how a bug fix can be implemented over the air, as all engineered things potentially have things to fix. He could have then steered the conversation to new features/fixes coming in new versions of software and how exciting that is for existing customers. He could have delineated the difference between infotainment systems and drivetrain systems and how Tesla does QA.

We want to get to a point that small bug fixes, labelled recalls or not, doesn't freak everyone out.

 

[Zythryn]

Soooooo any news/ideas remaining about that locked and turned off model S on display? There HAS to be a reason for this, right? I mean, they would not spend the money to display a car and then have it non accessible. Does anyone (besides me) think that Elon is planning another squeeze, unveiling whatever goodies that the vehicle has in store tomorrow, after all of the upgrades, etc today?

I suspect it means nothing.
People get their hopes up over everything Tesla. From the stock price, to deliveries, to putting 26 electric motors in the car next week.
And hopes get dashed and the bloggers and financial analysts have a field day with it.

Now, Tesla does have a history of phenomenal stuff. But I have gotten to the point where I choose not to expect Tesla to give me the stars next week so I am happy when they deliver the moon.

It is much more enjoyable than being disappointed when they don't deliver the stars:wink:

 

[chickensevil]

I suspect it means nothing.
People get their hopes up over everything Tesla. From the stock price, to deliveries, to putting 26 electric motors in the car next week.
And hopes get dashed and the bloggers and financial analysts have a field day with it.

Now, Tesla does have a history of phenomenal stuff. But I have gotten to the point where I choose not to expect Tesla to give me the stars next week so I am happy when they deliver the moon.

It is much more enjoyable than being disappointed when they don't deliver the stars:wink:

You heard it hear first guys! New Model Double-Sx13! Now with 26 motors!

 

[AnOutsider]

I'm fine with the NEMA 14-50 upgrade being called a recall. I think Musk and Tesla should have owned it:

"Yes, we decided to implement a recall for the NEMA 14-50 adapters. Very few of these adapters have had an issue, but we decided to look at the situation again and found that there was something that we could do to help insure the safety of our customers. Therefore, we are upgrading the NEMA 14-50 adapters for existing customers with this additional safety enhancement for free. This action was probably unnecessary, but with an abundance of caution, we felt this was the right thing to do for our customers. In addition, since much of our car's behavior can be upgraded over the air or through the internet, we sent out an additional enhancement to cars to help detect electrical problems that might affect charging. We will continue to refine the features and the behavior of the car into the future in this manner. We let NHTSA know that we have decided to take these actions to help safeguard our customers even in some situations where our equipment is not at fault."

And then Mr. Musk could have gone onto CNBC and owned the recall, instead of being defensive. He could then talk about how a bug fix can be implemented over the air, as all engineered things potentially have things to fix. He could have then steered the conversation to new features/fixes coming in new versions of software and how exciting that is for existing customers. He could have delineated the difference between infotainment systems and drivetrain systems and how Tesla does QA.

We want to get to a point that small bug fixes, labelled recalls or not, doesn't freak everyone out.

Couldn't agree more. Instead they got defensive and possibly drew more attention.

 

[J in MN]

I'm fine with the NEMA 14-50 upgrade being called a recall. I think Musk and Tesla should have owned it:

+1e6. This is the distinction they should've made: Recall the adapter, not the car. Instead they made fools of themselves arguing over the meaning of a word.

 

[TSLAopt]

Couldn't agree more. Instead they got defensive and possibly drew more attention.

I actually couldn't DISagree more, I'm very happy with how Elon defended...there are any FUDsters out there that were trying to use this as something to create more FUD out of...it needed a quick and swift response by Elon which he did in order to keep the sentiment reversal on TSLA from reversing back to negative.

Too many people just read headlines and don't have time to really get into the details as much as we do...we don't want less of these common people lining up to buy Tesla cars in the near future because they remember negative headlines about recalls, there needs to be rebuttal headlines from Elon that they see promptly after reading the negatively reported headlines.

 

[AnOutsider]

I actually couldn't DISagree more, I'm very happy with how Elon defended...there are any FUDsters out there that were trying to use this as something to create more FUD out of...it needed a quick and swift response by Elon which he did in order to keep the sentiment reversal on TSLA from reversing back to negative.

Too many people just read headlines and don't have time to really get into the details as much as we do...we don't want less of these common people lining up to buy Tesla cars in the near future because they remember negative headlines about recalls, there needs to be rebuttal headlines from Elon that they see promptly after reading the negatively reported headlines.

Agree re: people reading headlines, however that headline could have read "Tesla recalls charging adapters" and most would have gotten the gist. Now you get titles along the lines of "Tesla dances around the recall word" and "Tesla won't call it a recall but it is" (paraphrasing from the google alerts I get).

People will skim no matter what, but the last thing we need is Elon firing up the late Steve Jobs' RDF and countering FUD with BS. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to the issue since I see time and time again Tesla failing miserably on the communications side, but there's my opinion.

 

[techmaven]

BTW, I would have brought an adapter to the CNBC interview. Nothing like a visual to see the difference between recalling the car and recalling the adapter.

The people just reading headlines just don't matter. They are so far out from being customers that this small incident will be gone from their minds by the time it does matter. For everyone else, what they remember is Tesla being too defensive.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Couldn't agree more. Instead they got defensive and possibly drew more attention.

Possibly. But judging by the stock price it doesn't seem to have hurt the company in the slightest. The news about shipments seems to have swept everything else away.

 

[AlMc]

Possibly. But judging by the stock price it doesn't seem to have hurt the company in the slightest. The news about shipments seems to have swept everything else away.

Not only shipments but announcing they are doubling their staff....basically saying, we are off and running now.

 

[GSP]

Couldn't agree more. Instead they got defensive and possibly drew more attention.

...possibly drew more attention.

This is a great thing to do when you have an advertising budget of exactly $0, and you need for more people to hear about your cars for sale. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Making a big deal about the word "recall" may sound silly, but Elon is very smart.

GSP

 

[AnOutsider]

...possibly drew more attention.

This is a great thing to do when you have an advertising budget of exactly $0, and you need for more people to hear about your cars for sale. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Making a big deal about the word "recall" may sound silly, but Elon is very smart.

GSP

In GENERAL I agree, but on this, I think it was a bad thing to draw attention to. Indeed the other announcements drowned this info out (which was probably the intent), but I still believe the "recall" part of things was handled poorly.

 

[brianman]

In GENERAL I agree, but on this, I think it was a bad thing to draw attention to. Indeed the other announcements drowned this info out (which was probably the intent), but I still believe the "recall" part of things was handled poorly.

I understand the rationale: "Tesla to industry: new terminology is needed". I also think you're right that they could have played it better.

Maybe something like...

We believe the industry might need some new terminology as software and firmware changes -- especially in the Model S -- aren't adequately captured by current terminology that is applied to automobiles.

There were two changes related to Model S recently w/r/t charging.

Software
We have already pushed new firmware to all cars, and owners are in control of whether they accept this firmware or not. Most of them have. (Ed: I don't have data on 'most' but Tesla does.) This firmware applies additional logic to the charging support in the car to detect problems with external wiring, by evaluating ___ in the incoming power. When problems are detected, the power used is lowered to help lessen the impact of bad house wiring, etc. In the software world, this is sometimes described as a new feature or improvement of an existing feature. 'Remedy', 'upgrade', 'improvement', etc. all seem like good words. 'Recall' seems like an odd word to use here: nothing is being returned to the factory or service center, and the driver doesn't have to take time out of his/her day to mail something or take the car in to have some part removed and replaced with a different one.

Hardware
We now have a replacement adapter that is better than the original, and are providing it to customers at no charge. The original adapter wasn't flawed, but the world it's used with is. So we made a better adapter and the existing adapters are fine to continue using. So we don't believe 'recall' is the right word. The car isn't being changed. So reports of physical changes to the car -- "recall" or otherwise -- are incorrect.

My suspicion is that the (over)emphasis on "recall" (the word) has to do with Elon saying "there will be no recall" related to the suspension concerns. With these two charging-related changes, he's attempting to deal with terminology here (charging) instead of there (suspension). If this is intentional, it's a somewhat clever tactic.

If he phrased it like I did above and the general response was "ok, we get it; sounds fine." Then in a month or two he could follow with "remember the firmware remedy we did for charging; same thing with suspension, the second update is now complete and pushed to customers."