What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?

[timvracer]

I LOVE MY 2017 Model S... so much so I am taking great care of it (still looks brand new). Want to get 8-10 years out of it.
But if I do need to buy another car...

It' won't be a Tesla. Why? Simple, the new interiors suck. I love my model S, maybe I am old school, but I like having an interior that makes driving easy, comfortable. I believe the competition will have credible electric cars with real interiors that suit me, and hopefully they will move towards upgradeable software as well like Tesla.

But I cannot handle the Plaid interior, sparse, empty... not my style.

 

[ucmndd]

I am going to call a spade a spade, the Mach-e you directly listed is in no way competitive with any 2021 Tesla with respect to road trips, full stop.

Again, a claim I never made, even tangentially. In fact, my very first post mentioned the currently abhorrent situation of DC fast charging with the Mach E and the EA charging network, and immediately acknowledged that Tesla's current charging network is far superior. My point all along was: I'm no longer interested in taking my EVs on road trips given the current reality of the technology and if I was shopping today I'd no longer make that a major consideration in my decision making.

Anyway. We can be done with this now. You are obviously only interested in hearing what you want to hear so you can argue with someone about a made up claim.

 

[Ofarlig]

My 90D has been perfectly useful even for 800 mile / 1300km trips (in a day). Newer cars will be even better; my 270 mile range is about on the edge of tolerable (either for local driving without fast charging or to allow fast charging to happen quickly).

I dread trips in my wife's audi -- the drone, the stink, the smelly gas stations, etc. Driving trips where the first leg (on an overnight 100% charge) is long, then settling into a cadence of drive for 2 hours stop for 20 minutes is actually pretty civilized. Gone are the days where I'd fill my Golf TDI to the brim and hammer on for 6 hours at a shot (while spending the last 45 minutes anxiously squinting for diesel stations).

Electric cars (even non-teslas) are good enough at this point; the failing is entirely around managing the fast charging network and the car's understanding of the fast charging network. Tesla's got that part nailed down -- the navigation understands where the charging stations are, how busy they are, and if they're offline, and manages the trip for you; it gives you enough information so you can override it if you want, and there are enough fast chargers (at least between where I am and where I want to go) that I don't worry too much about the process.

Yeah, I had a S75D before and that range was a bit too low in combination with slower charging. It was saved by the well built network but still required slightly longer stops than I would want to do. I‘d rather do that than ICE cars though. But the problem is that many cars is at the same level or worse as my S75D today and on top of that they have a way worse charging network where I might arrive at a single 50 kW charger as my only option.

 

[Yarbi]

Will be looking at other models since the pictures of the interior I am seeing of the new MS are not for me. Seems to remove the convenience of the stock for turn signals, AP, and shifting. Also certainly don'y want the half steering wheel. I love my current 2021 MS so hope it lasts a long time.

 

[Yurand]

I have a Ford Lightning reservation, so am not Tesla apologist...

LOL
Dude, you're literally in every thread even slightly critical of Tesla talking about how your car is perfect and charges just as fast as it did when it was new, etc.

 

[whitex]

Right, bait and switch and reneging on implied promises. Both are pretty bad, and tesla's done both.

GM's installed cost-cut ignition switches that silently disconnected when jostled, resulting in the car turning off, sometimes when the driver's making a left turn or whatnot. BTW a car that's off won't have airbags deployed when you get t-boned in an intersection because your car turned off. GM "Fixed" the problem but didn't issue a recall or even change the part number on the part, meaning you couldn't track if you've got a good or bad one, and strongly implying that they knew of the problem and covered it up. Hundreds of people were killed by this. Parents who bought their kids their kids a safe new car for graduation, moms, etc. GM knew, and covered it up, and worked to avoid a recall.

VW (and audi / porsche) programmed their computers to lie to emissions testers.

I'm not trying to play some whataboutism game here, just pointing out that most car companies "push limits".

Tesla service centers are overloaded and they don't offer a fantastic service experience; tesla sells you a car shaped box of parts if you're foolish enough to buy in their end-of-quarter rush, they push the epa range estimates right up to the edge such that you'll likely never see the rated range on driving on planet earth. they've shown a willingness to OTA gimp cars and even though they've now got the means to fix the various gates they haven't.

Even all that included, I'd tell an EV curious person to buy a tesla because their cars are pretty good and because the supercharger experience is leagues better than any other network. Sure, there are fast charge networks out there, but until they prove they're actually taking it seriously I wouldn't rely on them. Crap like EA's taking a huge fleet of stations offline for labor day weekend isn't great. And, I'm pretty sure that a new tesla would be able to use any 3rd party network.

Absolutely, companies do push the limits, going into unethical territory, but Tesla just takes it to a whole new level. The big guys usually end up paying too, using your examples - GM settled all claims for the ignition, VW paid billions in reparations and bought back the cars at almost new value. If Tesla offers to buy my P85D at the same % of MSRP that VW bought back the diesel cars back, then it would be comparable (VW lied about emissions, Tesla lied about hp by a huge margin even though they knew they had a safety pyro-fuse which would cut the power way before reaching the advertised number, lied about battery capacity when new, nerfed the batteries later without consent, etc).

PS> What's your source on the GM facts you cited? What I found here is that GM did issue a recall, and 124 deaths does not constitute "hundreds" as you claim, unless those are Tesla/Elon "special hundreds" (i.e. exaggerated for hype) like Tesla hp.

 

[Vzxyz]

Dreading my 3rd visit to the service center tomorrow for front suspension rattle on my 2018 Model S. Here’s what has been fixed so far in my 27 months of ownership.

1. Bad paint job on front number on delivery day. They just buffed them out (I guess)
2. Front DRL went yellow. I’ve had 4 replaced so far (about once every 6 months) - fixed by mobile ranger
3. Interior trim (felt liner like thing) just came out for no reason - fixed by mobile ranger.
4. Front suspension rattle - replaced suspension module twice. Still have the same rattle. Additionally I hear a clunk from front suspension over low speed bumps. Going to SC tomorrow to have this looked at.

i paid over 100k for the car when new and understand that the service has gone down now. However the service experience has just nose dived. No loaners (despite booking a service appt 4-6 weeks ahead), no person to talk on phone, poor build quality for the price, etc.

Im tired of the brand. Can’t imagine having the car out of warranty (esp with the $2400 headlight changes expected every 6 months). Yes the supercharging network is great but other are catching up. Im switching to Taycan next month.

 

[RonI]

As a mechanic of 30+ years, I can say Tesla makes cars that last. Other manufacturers have gone cheap and it shows in their longevity. I see broken BMW and MINI vehicles every day and the problems come from cost cutting. My '16 S has had some small issues but compared to a BMW for which it's intended to compete, it's a no brainer. BMWs quickly go into the $2-5k per year to maintain just after going out of warranty 3-5 years old. A typical front only brake job on a BMW is over $600 and M cars can go over $1500. Worse, they need brakes every 30-40k miles. A Tesla can go 400k on brakes! This is easy and why I purchased my S.

 

[RonI]

Dreading my 3rd visit to the service center tomorrow for front suspension rattle on my 2018 Model S. Here’s what has been fixed so far in my 27 months of ownership.

1. Bad paint job on front number on delivery day. They just buffed them out (I guess)
2. Front DRL went yellow. I’ve had 4 replaced so far (about once every 6 months) - fixed by mobile ranger
3. Interior trim (felt liner like thing) just came out for no reason - fixed by mobile ranger.
4. Front suspension rattle - replaced suspension module twice. Still have the same rattle. Additionally I hear a clunk from front suspension over low speed bumps. Going to SC tomorrow to have this looked at.

i paid over 100k for the car when new and understand that the service has gone down now. However the service experience has just nose dived. No loaners (despite booking a service appt 4-6 weeks ahead), no person to talk on phone, poor build quality for the price, etc.

Im tired of the brand. Can’t imagine having the car out of warranty (esp with the $2400 headlight changes expected every 6 months). Yes the supercharging network is great but other are catching up. Im switching to Taycan next month.

Understand your frustrations but I can tell you with certainty that a BMW, MBZ, Audi or Porsche out of warranty is 10X worse. $2400 headlight? try 4k. Not to mention $3-5 k per year in "regular repairs and maintenance"

 

[tengtengvn]

GM made some trade-offs that seem to be accepted by you.

Volt has the same firmware/features and the battery reserves 35% so that you cannot use it. Meaning, you paid for a lot more battery but get a much smaller fraction of the range. Great strategy for customers, just plug and forget, the change in capacity is hidden from you. It just means the car is heavier and lower range than would otherwise be possible with allowing the use of 90+% of the battery capacity like Tesla does.

Our 2013 Model S has only lost 5% of it's original range, charges identical to new and has updated firmware and features.
Frankly, we've enjoyed having access to full capacity of our battery vs 65%, with a small cost in 5% degradation.
I prefer Tesla's trade off. Some would prefer GM's.

Audi e-trons are notable for taking similar approach as GM. Their range is less than Tesla for the same price. But like I said, some prefer that approach.

For the full EV, yes. However for the PHEV, I agree with GM approach. When the battery runs out, the generator kicks in to power the car so that 35% doesn't really matter too much. Even if GM gives an option to unlock it, it would keep it the same way. I just wish they make a larger version of the Volt with more range. Too bad, they killed the platform.

 

[dipper]

As a mechanic of 30+ years, I can say Tesla makes cars that last. Other manufacturers have gone cheap and it shows in their longevity. I see broken BMW and MINI vehicles every day and the problems come from cost cutting. My '16 S has had some small issues but compared to a BMW for which it's intended to compete, it's a no brainer. BMWs quickly go into the $2-5k per year to maintain just after going out of warranty 3-5 years old. A typical front only brake job on a BMW is over $600 and M cars can go over $1500. Worse, they need brakes every 30-40k miles. A Tesla can go 400k on brakes! This is easy and why I purchased my S.

I don't know. I just bought my wife a Prius Prime. Made in Japan. Dang thing makes my $100k car looks bad. The build quality is tip top. It looks like 2 Tesla will go to labdfill before this car goes.

 

[RonI]

I don't know. I just bought my wife a Prius Prime. Made in Japan. Dang thing makes my $100k car looks bad. The build quality is tip top. It looks like 2 Tesla will go to labdfill before this car goes.

Prius Prime, The Worlds Ugliest Car. Panned by nearly every mag, reviewer, and me. I would not be caught decomposed in a Prius which is what would happen if I attempted to drag race with one. Slow, fugally, oil burnin, depreciating pile. But that's just my opinion, Enjoy

 

[ucmndd]

Prius Prime, The Worlds Ugliest Car. Panned by nearly every mag, reviewer, and me. I would not be caught decomposed in a Prius which is what would happen if I attempted to drag race with one. Slow, fugally, oil burnin, depreciating pile. But that's just my opinion, Enjoy

Replace “Prius Prime” with “RAV4 Prime” and most of your arguments evaporate.

 

[pabla]

Understand your frustrations but I can tell you with certainty that a BMW, MBZ, Audi or Porsche out of warranty is 10X worse. $2400 headlight? try 4k. Not to mention $3-5 k per year in "regular repairs and maintenance"

I can agree that German cars are more expensive to fix out of warranty simply due to the complex parts. Comparing parts for parts yes Germans are more expensive, but lets compare headlights like you said. How many model s owners are on their 3-4 set of headlights in warranty? Now tell me how many German car owners are in that same situation, probably none. That price difference is quickly negated by repeated fixes.

I have owned 2 Model S' and 5 Audis and the repairs/maintenance those 5 Audi's had total equal the amount of repairs on my first S (thank god for extended warranty). Not trying to sound like a broken record since I have said this a few times on this forum but Tesla's are computers that happen to have wheels. The "car" part of them is an afterthought.

 

[cucubits]

How many model s owners are on their 3-4 set of headlights in warranty? Now tell me how many German car owners are in that same situation, probably none.

Not only that, how much better are any German car headlights compared to the utter garbage we have on the nose of the facelift Model S. I can't believe how bad the beam pattern is. It's like Tesla put zero effort in R&D with these things. And if this is the case with something so obvious, just imagine how poorly designed are many other "under the hood" parts on a Tesla.

 

[dipper]

Makes my point. World's ugliest car is better built than an $100k car made by Tesla.

 

[pabla]

Not only that, how much better are any German car headlights compared to the utter garbage we have on the nose of the facelift Model S. I can't believe how bad the beam pattern is. It's like Tesla put zero effort in R&D with these things. And if this is the case with something so obvious, just imagine how poorly designed are many other "under the hood" parts on a Tesla.

But don't tell the fanboys lol, they are still set on the fact its the safest car in the world when the headlights on my 2015 Kia Optima blow it out of the water and those are just plain old HID headlights

 

[dipper]

Not only that, how much better are any German car headlights compared to the utter garbage we have on the nose of the facelift Model S. I can't believe how bad the beam pattern is. It's like Tesla put zero effort in R&D with these things. And if this is the case with something so obvious, just imagine how poorly designed are many other "under the hood" parts on a Tesla.

It's a software company, remember? As fanboys keep reminding us.

You know the joke.... How many software engineers do it take to change a light bulb?

 

[RonI]

I can agree that German cars are more expensive to fix out of warranty simply due to the complex parts. Comparing parts for parts yes Germans are more expensive, but lets compare headlights like you said. How many model s owners are on their 3-4 set of headlights in warranty? Now tell me how many German car owners are in that same situation, probably none. That price difference is quickly negated by repeated fixes.

I have owned 2 Model S' and 5 Audis and the repairs/maintenance those 5 Audi's had total equal the amount of repairs on my first S (thank god for extended warranty). Not trying to sound like a broken record since I have said this a few times on this forum but Tesla's are computers that happen to have wheels. The "car" part of them is an afterthought.

Interesting I am having this convo on TMC. "complex parts" mostly their engines and transmissions, but that's a bad thing. I replace those parts every day. Nothing complex about a plastic engine oil pan that uses a plastic drain plug. They are making the worst cars in their long history. Designed to be thrown away at 100k miles. Google N20, N63, N55 engine problems. I just finished replacing a N63 today 50k miles, $14k later(with a massively reduced price on the long block). BMW is staring down 3 massive class-actions at the same time is going to be hurt big from heavy depreciation and over leasing their fleet. 5 years from now BMW and the rest will be the little guys. Teslas are not perfect but overall they are way better than the rest. BTW I still have my 1st set of headlights on my '16 S. They look like new with the exception of where I scratched one.

 

[Yanniz]

What’s wrong with the headlights? They’re perfectly fine on my ‘15 S