Needsdecaf
Active Member
Yeah, a lot of dealers still have that mentality. But not all, thankfully. When I got my VW GTi I had NONE of that. It was awesome.
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What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?
- Thread starter vapor trail
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Yeah, a lot of dealers still have that mentality. But not all, thankfully. When I got my VW GTi I had NONE of that. It was awesome.
Needsdecaf
Active Member
Yup. I figured that hack out about 8 years ago or so, the first time I bought a car when dealer websites had "click here for a quote". Did that for every dealer in town, ignored all phone calls, and just worked the emails and texts. It's great.
Interesting thread.
Being new to Tesla, maybe I'm not jaded yet and hadn't experienced the support issues others have. But I do know, that you get them no matter who makes the vehicle and I think EV owners are probably more discerning than most.
As for the change in loyalty percentages from 4-5 years ago to now, that's not only due to poor customer service, there are just more options available now than there were back then,
But to me, that shift is going to force Tesla to be more customer service focused because they are no longer the only game in town. I'm not really sure if they are ignoring customer service, they just opened a new Service Center near me when there were already 2 more in my area so that does indicate some directive to provide support. So you may see improvement in customer support as competition grows.
That's why it's good for other companies to come out with EVs, it improves everything. Maybe Ford's Intelligent Backup Power feature has Musk looking into OTA'ing our Teslas to be mobile Powerwalls (although he probably won't just to protect his home battery business). But at least the F-150 puts other pressures on Telsa... like moving up production timelines for the CT.
I will say that my current Tesla experience has been awesome, supercharged for the first time yesterday and it was way easier than trying to use a ChargePoint charger. But that L3 network advantage may also get challenged which is good for everyone.
Being new to Tesla, maybe I'm not jaded yet and hadn't experienced the support issues others have. But I do know, that you get them no matter who makes the vehicle and I think EV owners are probably more discerning than most.
As for the change in loyalty percentages from 4-5 years ago to now, that's not only due to poor customer service, there are just more options available now than there were back then,
But to me, that shift is going to force Tesla to be more customer service focused because they are no longer the only game in town. I'm not really sure if they are ignoring customer service, they just opened a new Service Center near me when there were already 2 more in my area so that does indicate some directive to provide support. So you may see improvement in customer support as competition grows.
That's why it's good for other companies to come out with EVs, it improves everything. Maybe Ford's Intelligent Backup Power feature has Musk looking into OTA'ing our Teslas to be mobile Powerwalls (although he probably won't just to protect his home battery business). But at least the F-150 puts other pressures on Telsa... like moving up production timelines for the CT.
I will say that my current Tesla experience has been awesome, supercharged for the first time yesterday and it was way easier than trying to use a ChargePoint charger. But that L3 network advantage may also get challenged which is good for everyone.
Nope - there are not really any options I would choose if today. My loyalty change is 100% Tesla anger.
My ordered parts that I paid for. I was told to email them and they would let me know they are in or not. So I waited a week - the estimated time for the parts - and emailed. No reply. It is like dealing with a local handyman. One I would not have paid in advance for anything.
I would never ever pay Tesla anything in advance. Or ever again --- if I didn't need these parts. But a new car - No F... way!!!
My ordered parts that I paid for. I was told to email them and they would let me know they are in or not. So I waited a week - the estimated time for the parts - and emailed. No reply. It is like dealing with a local handyman. One I would not have paid in advance for anything.
I would never ever pay Tesla anything in advance. Or ever again --- if I didn't need these parts. But a new car - No F... way!!!
You're absolutely correct. I love it. Sadly, we probably won't see it for years. It's low on Tesla's to do list. Pricing at $200K+ does result in it not being a practical replacement for most people. If by some miracle of chance it comes to market by next year, it would certainly be near the top of my list.The new roadster looks pretty exciting.
Yes, I feel the same way about the Ford dealer here. Main reason that I did NOT reserve a Ford Lightning this week.
My loyalty to Tesla is at the lowest point it has been in a very long time, but I will say the purchase experience was very easy and professionally done.
If Elon Musk would give me a refund in that FSD purchase from 2018, my loyalty would be restored. Not holding my breath on that one.
Sbaimo
12/15 LR black/white 21” no FSD delivered 6/30
Needsdecaf
Active Member
SmartElectric
Active Member
GM made some trade-offs that seem to be accepted by you.
Volt has the same firmware/features and the battery reserves 35% so that you cannot use it. Meaning, you paid for a lot more battery but get a much smaller fraction of the range. Great strategy for customers, just plug and forget, the change in capacity is hidden from you. It just means the car is heavier and lower range than would otherwise be possible with allowing the use of 90+% of the battery capacity like Tesla does.
Our 2013 Model S has only lost 5% of it's original range, charges identical to new and has updated firmware and features.
Frankly, we've enjoyed having access to full capacity of our battery vs 65%, with a small cost in 5% degradation.
I prefer Tesla's trade off. Some would prefer GM's.
Audi e-trons are notable for taking similar approach as GM. Their range is less than Tesla for the same price. But like I said, some prefer that approach.
SmartElectric
Active Member
On the contrary, I am keeping my Cybertruck reservation (~100K in line) and reserved an F-150 Lightning (~40000 in line).
Whichever one has the largest kWh battery capacity wins. Towing range is almost entirely about capacity, not EPA range estimate.
Re: Tesla, love our 2013 Model S, best car we've ever owned, and Tesla service here in Toronto Canada has been exemplary for us.
Re: Ford, owned 4 of them, good commuter cars back in the day when gas was king, will give them one more chance and test drive the F150EV and choose.
Wife prefers more conservative looking cars, hence her Model S, the CT is "way out", but if it's better in the key capacity metric, that will make our decision.
SmartElectric
Active Member
You bought the lowest range Tesla S available at the time, seems like you didn't prioritize road trips on that purchase, which is understandable considering you also have a gas hybrid in the garage.
Re: Mach-e, presumably you'd buy the highest range Mach-e now 300 miles.
Not sure why supercharger speeds are an issue for you anymore, Tesla has released firmware that has reportedly (elsewhere in the forum) brought speeds and capacity back for much of the older fleet of cars. Our 2013 S wasn't affected by any firmware change as yours was, but because we only have 90kW max supercharging and the original charge curve (120-SOC% KW), we only roadtrip up to 2000 km at a time, less than 2000 miles, but still plenty for us.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
No, but I spent the first 100,000 miles driving it all over the Western US to great effect. It worked fine and was enjoyable even. That's no longer the case, and it hasn't changed because I bought the lowest range car, it's changed because Tesla has changed it.
The inconsistency is the biggest problem. It's gotten faster and slower multiple times with various firmware updates. Although the taper has gotten consistently worse over the years, even if peak speeds have improved. Charging to 80% these days is a laborious chore, and it didn't used to be that way.
SmartElectric
Active Member
Hope you enjoy the switch to Mach-e, you won't be charging above 80% on road trips for sure as Ford limits to 13kW DC at 80%. The charge curve is far worse than any modern Tesla product, but you know that going in. Since you won't be buying the base battery (unlike what you did on your 75), at least you'll get longer range than your current car, even if it's no match to Tesla on road trips. Enjoy! What's the wait on a Mach-e right now with deliveries in the low thousands per month?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's any way you can claim with a straight face that maintaining ~100kw up to 80% SoC is a "far worse charge curve than any modern Tesla product".
I have no interest in replacing a paid-for functioning car at the moment.
I'll also offer in closing that your instinctive defense of Tesla appears to have completely missed the actual point of my post to instead hone in on trying to tell me I "did it wrong" when I selected a car that met my needs 4.5 years ago and still would today had Tesla not chosen to nerf it.
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Will be curious to see how well Ford Mach E and others hold up years down the road.
here is the Mach E charge curve. Drops below 100kw before hitting 40% full. Is 74kw at 80% then massively drops. Perhaps at some point that will be changed.
insideevs.com
here is the Mach E charge curve. Drops below 100kw before hitting 40% full. Is 74kw at 80% then massively drops. Perhaps at some point that will be changed.
Watch How Long It Takes To Charge A Mustang Mach-E From 0 To 100%
We find out how long it takes to charge a Mustang Mach-E on an Electrify America DC fast charger and also test out the vehicle's Plug&Charge technology.
insideevs.com
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Agree there's a lot of unknown, and it's entirely likely that Ford is going to manipulate and change things as they go, just like Tesla. Another reason I'm certainly in no rush to be an early adopter. Right now my car is, for better or worse, a known quantity.Will be curious to see how well Ford Mach E and others hold up years down the road.
here is the Mach E charge curve. Drops below 100kw before hitting 40% full.
Watch How Long It Takes To Charge A Mustang Mach-E From 0 To 100%
We find out how long it takes to charge a Mustang Mach-E on an Electrify America DC fast charger and also test out the vehicle's Plug&Charge technology.
I also came across some testing videos of the Mach E that suggested the taper, at least at Electrify America chargers, is actually time-based vs capacity - meaning they simply step down the power after some number of minutes vs. more sophisticated algorithms involving SoC, etc. This was demonstrated by stopping a session after 15 minutes or so and immediately starting it again - the rate shot back up to >100kw and then tapered with roughly the same time-based curve as the first session despite the battery being significantly more charged. Up until the hard limit at 80% anyway.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Or, just come in with the answers to the above questions ready. It's not that hard to find what you need online and/or do the math. While I agree that sometimes the theatrics of the dealership left me with some distaste, it doesn't compare to the distaste of the Tesla stunts like "oh, when we said motor power, we meant only the motors if they were mounted in a totally different car" or "the yellowing screen on the less than a year old $100K car is really your own fault for exposing the screen to oxygen and sunlight" or "you replaced your emmc yourself, so no recall compensation for you" or "we don't care if you have a video of the car malfunctioning, if we cannot reproduce it, it's $175 per hour for diagnostics not covered under warranty" or "__insert_feature_not_working_here_ is a known issue, it should be fixed on next update, if not, the one after that, if not the one after that, or maybe later" (even when applied to clearly mechanical faults like mirrors not being able to stay folded out).
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