When the ACTUAL cybertruck pricing is released…,

[Suns_PSD]

Doesn't matter how efficient it is. This is being sold as a truck. As a truck, it needs to do truck things. If it can't, then it is an SUV with a bigger than average trunk. That is OK, but lets not pretend that an EV that can't perform Truck things is a Truck.

250 miles towing or hauling 50% of max capacity is a min range. If it can't do that, then it is not a truck. If you only use your vehicle to tow 50 miles that is fine too but you can get by with an SUV now. I can not and am looking to buy the first EV truck that really can do truck things. I'm hoping it will be the Cyber truck. If not I may have to wait on the RAM. They are promising more range in their vehicle and may beat the cyber to market.

I understand your position, but prepare to be disappointed for the next decade. That's just reality.

As a business owner I genuinely 'need' a truck, hauling dirty/ large crap daily. That said, I don't need to trailer heavy things long distances and I think this statement is true for a majority of modern truck buyers.

The minority however, that has to tow heavy items long distances with regularity, will have no choice but to stick with ICE for another decade or 2.

Good luck!

 

[Cal1]

Kind of tired of folks expecting CT final performance to be governed by what Ford or Rivian has been able to accomplished. Look we have the best minds in the ev/battery world working on this. This range crap about what the CT will get is exactly that. I have come to expect excellence from my company and refuse to buy anybody else’s truck until the final product is shown.

I‘m pretty sure CT standard features will be expensive add on’s from everyone else. I also expect that unlike a Lightning there won’t be an incredibly confusing array of decisions on what to add to the basic package. And I expect the range to be over and above Ford and Rivian especially towing. From the git go the Ford truck market was the target. To exceed an F150 not match it.

I might be wrong but I’m waiting. BTW I still hate the CT looks but it’s gonna be the best truck you can buy. If I’m wrong I’ll buy a Lightning. Their prices (at least the market adjustments) will drop when the final CT is revealed and their availability will go up.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Kind of tired of folks expecting CT final performance to be governed by what Ford or Rivian has been able to accomplished. Look we have the best minds in the ev/battery world working on this. This range crap about what the CT will get is exactly that. I have come to expect excellence from my company and refuse to buy anybody else’s truck until the final product is shown.

I‘m pretty sure CT standard features will be expensive add on’s from everyone else. I also expect that unlike a Lightning there won’t be an incredibly confusing array of decisions on what to add to the basic package. And I expect the range to be over and above Ford and Rivian especially towing. From the git go the Ford truck market was the target. To exceed an F150 not match it.

I might be wrong but I’m waiting. BTW I still hate the CT looks but it’s gonna be the best truck you can buy. If I’m wrong I’ll buy a Lightning. Their prices (at least the market adjustments) will drop when the final CT is revealed and their availability will go up.

Configuring a Lightning is “confusing” ….. damn

 

[RMS149]

I understand your position, but prepare to be disappointed for the next decade. That's just reality.

As a business owner I genuinely 'need' a truck, hauling dirty/ large crap daily. That said, I don't need to trailer heavy things long distances and I think this statement is true for a majority of modern truck buyers.

The minority however, that has to tow heavy items long distances with regularity, will have no choice but to stick with ICE for another decade or 2.

Good luck!

I may be disappointed and that is fine. I disagree with your statement that the majority of truck buyers are like you. There are 12 Million pleasure boaters in the USA. Of that about 2/3 have their boats in the yard and trailer them to various lakes. (8 million boaters). 3 million of those are bass boats, Yes that number surprised me too. Bass boats NEVER sit at the lake. When we are not fishing, our boat is on the trailer. We tournament fish or practice on average 2 times a month and we do not just fish our local lakes.

EV is not a religious experience for me. I do not care if the correct answer is BEV or some form of hybrid or if ICE is the final answer. If the tech isn't there then there are 3million trucks used to haul fishing boats that in the next 10 years will be replaced with ICE. Now add to that all the other outdoor activities, Pulling a camper, None is buying a new camper that drives its wheels as that is a safety issue and stupid expensive, ATV/snowmobiling etc and cross all those people off the list.

You are left with people who do not use a truck as anything more than a status symbol, and a niche group that use it so lightly that they should own a mid size today.

I say again. You can not just make up names. To call it a truck it needs to do truck things. I expect if it is advertised to do 500 miles unloaded then it best be able to do 500 miles unloaded.

If I need to buy a Tesla Generator that drops in the bed on the weekends and burns 10 gallons of gas to augment the range then that is fine too. Again not a religion for me. When you think about it that is a fairly simple solution that required programming and a couple grand. For the 80% of the time I do not need the range the generator sits in the garage and we don't have to have a weight penalty. The best and brightest should be able to work this out...

 

[T3SLAROD]

A Truck as a “Status Symbol” …… lmao

What status? I’ve heard it all now

 

[coleAK]

Kind of tired of folks expecting CT final performance to be governed by what Ford or Rivian has been able to accomplished. Look we have the best minds in the ev/battery world working on this. This range crap about what the CT will get is exactly that. I have come to expect excellence from my company and refuse to buy anybody else’s truck until the final product is shown.

I‘m pretty sure CT standard features will be expensive add on’s from everyone else. I also expect that unlike a Lightning there won’t be an incredibly confusing array of decisions on what to add to the basic package. And I expect the range to be over and above Ford and Rivian especially towing. From the git go the Ford truck market was the target. To exceed an F150 not match it.

I might be wrong but I’m waiting. BTW I still hate the CT looks but it’s gonna be the best truck you can buy. If I’m wrong I’ll buy a Lightning. Their prices (at least the market adjustments) will drop when the final CT is revealed and their availability will go up.

Lightning Confusing? Have you ever ordered a vehicle? There are 2 battery choices and 4 trims. From there like 2 packages. The rest of the choices are accessories like bed liners and storage…. Ordering fast food is more complex.


Try Porsche, my 911 turbo had >900 options not including custom.

 

[coleAK]

I may be disappointed and that is fine. I disagree with your statement that the majority of truck buyers are like you. There are 12 Million pleasure boaters in the USA. Of that about 2/3 have their boats in the yard and trailer them to various lakes. (8 million boaters). 3 million of those are bass boats, Yes that number surprised me too. Bass boats NEVER sit at the lake. When we are not fishing, our boat is on the trailer. We tournament fish or practice on average 2 times a month and we do not just fish our local lakes.

EV is not a religious experience for me. I do not care if the correct answer is BEV or some form of hybrid or if ICE is the final answer. If the tech isn't there then there are 3million trucks used to haul fishing boats that in the next 10 years will be replaced with ICE. Now add to that all the other outdoor activities, Pulling a camper, None is buying a new camper that drives its wheels as that is a safety issue and stupid expensive, ATV/snowmobiling etc and cross all those people off the list.

You are left with people who do not use a truck as anything more than a status symbol, and a niche group that use it so lightly that they should own a mid size today.

I say again. You can not just make up names. To call it a truck it needs to do truck things. I expect if it is advertised to do 500 miles unloaded then it best be able to do 500 miles unloaded.

If I need to buy a Tesla Generator that drops in the bed on the weekends and burns 10 gallons of gas to augment the range then that is fine too. Again not a religion for me. When you think about it that is a fairly simple solution that required programming and a couple grand. For the 80% of the time I do not need the range the generator sits in the garage and we don't have to have a weight penalty. The best and brightest should be able to work this out...

Bass boats are low, so are open motorcycles/ATV/snow Machine trailers so don’t add much wind resistance, shouldn’t reduce range all that much. Closed trailers, large boats and campers will me the range killers.

 

[RMS149]

A Truck as a “Status Symbol” …… lmao

What status? I’ve heard it all now

Don't get out much? How many F150 Limitied, GMC Denali, Silverado High Country, Ram Limited, are being sold and they never see a work site or have a stitch of dirt in the bed? I can go out to the company parking lot and show you 30% of the trucks at a manufacturing facility that have never had the hitch ball installed or the toneau cover taken off. They are just for the people to have a truck. I woudld bet another 30% are like me, weekend users but when we need it we need it so we get the locking dif, little larger engine, we do not need leather or a sun roof and we certainly do not need to roll on 22s.

So yea outside of Cali there is a larger world.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Don't get out much? How many F150 Limitied, GMC Denali, Silverado High Country, Ram Limited, are being sold and they never see a work site or have a stitch of dirt in the bed? I can go out to the company parking lot and show you 30% of the trucks at a manufacturing facility that have never had the hitch ball installed or the toneau cover taken off. They are just for the people to have a truck. I woudld bet another 30% are like me, weekend users but when we need it we need it so we get the locking dif, little larger engine, we do not need leather or a sun roof and we certainly do not need to roll on 22s.

So yea outside of Cali there is a larger world.

And how many sports cars are bought and never see a race track or a back road…… or an SUV that only ever uses the two front seats…… so everyone driving is a poser to you smh

Again, what is the “status symbol” for a truck owner?

You act like these people bought a truck you wanted to buy and pretty much payed over sticker leaving you out of the market…… hhhhmmmm

 

[RMS149]

No I have the truck I want and it does just fine. My point is people that do not use a truck as a truck.... Should not be defining what a truck is. Your attitude is the same issue. You know better and you know what I need. You are so stuck in your own little world you want to redefine things to fit you... Sorry people who need trucks, need them for what they do.. If you don't ever plan on using a truck as a truck then buy an SUV, don't try to re-define what a truck is.

As for everyone being a poser, I do not know everyone. I do not judge everyone but my neighbor who owns a Lambo to rev it up 2 times a week and drive it to the town square and back, well he is wasteful and is a poser but for many other reasons. If your panties are all in a twist because I have expectations and requirements that need to be met and post them here then perhaps you should do some self reflection.

As for the "What about" argument you are making. Well that is just a Straw man fallacy and seems to be all you have. There is a group of people who do not use trucks, do not need a truck, but want them to "Look cool". You can not deny this group exists. Truthfully I do not want all the bells and whistles in my truck as it is more parts to break.

Good luck but I suggest you ask what you have against my requirements to purchase My Truck?

 

[Suns_PSD]

And how many sports cars are bought and never see a race track or a back road…… or an SUV that only ever uses the two front seats…… so everyone driving is a poser to you smh

Again, what is the “status symbol” for a truck owner?

You act like these people bought a truck you wanted to buy and pretty much payed over sticker leaving you out of the market…… hhhhmmmm

Me at the car dealership: "I was really hoping to give off a sort of rednecky, uneducated vibe to impress my Golden Retriever, which vehicle do you recommend?"

Car Salesperson: "Sir, let me show you our selection of lifted 2wd diesel trucks that have beds too high to use, which is better cause you wouldn't want the bed to get scratched..."

 

[coleAK]

Me at the car dealership: "I was really hoping to give off a sort of rednecky, uneducated vibe to impress my Golden Retriever, which vehicle do you recommend?"

Car Salesperson: "Sir, let me show you are selection of lifted 2wd diesel trucks that have beds too high to use, which is better cause you wouldn't want the bed to get scratched..."

Sounds like you have been to Florida. Except switch golden retriever for pit bull.

I was deployed there fall 2020, never imagined there was a market for lifted 2wd trucks on 22’s with MT’s…. I guess there is.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I may be disappointed and that is fine. I disagree with your statement that the majority of truck buyers are like you. There are 12 Million pleasure boaters in the USA. Of that about 2/3 have their boats in the yard and trailer them to various lakes. (8 million boaters). 3 million of those are bass boats, Yes that number surprised me too. Bass boats NEVER sit at the lake. When we are not fishing, our boat is on the trailer. We tournament fish or practice on average 2 times a month and we do not just fish our local lakes.

EV is not a religious experience for me. I do not care if the correct answer is BEV or some form of hybrid or if ICE is the final answer. If the tech isn't there then there are 3million trucks used to haul fishing boats that in the next 10 years will be replaced with ICE. Now add to that all the other outdoor activities, Pulling a camper, None is buying a new camper that drives its wheels as that is a safety issue and stupid expensive, ATV/snowmobiling etc and cross all those people off the list.

You are left with people who do not use a truck as anything more than a status symbol, and a niche group that use it so lightly that they should own a mid size today.

I say again. You can not just make up names. To call it a truck it needs to do truck things. I expect if it is advertised to do 500 miles unloaded then it best be able to do 500 miles unloaded.

If I need to buy a Tesla Generator that drops in the bed on the weekends and burns 10 gallons of gas to augment the range then that is fine too. Again not a religion for me. When you think about it that is a fairly simple solution that required programming and a couple grand. For the 80% of the time I do not need the range the generator sits in the garage and we don't have to have a weight penalty. The best and brightest should be able to work this out...

Your math really doesn't work, for one thing there are about 170 million registered pickups in the USA right now.

I'd also add that when I had a John boat (weighed about 800#s btw), and then a jetski, and then a wakeboarding boat, I never towed them more than 20 miles even 1x. I guess cause I live within 20 miles for multiple lakes.

I do on the other hand own a trucking company and carry tires, tools, chains, etc. nearly daily so I assure you this counts as 'real truck use' whether you accept it or not. Towing is something I very rarely do these days although that might change in the future.

Ram & Ford are both exploring on-board generators, which I am fully behind as a great solution. However, Tesla will NEVER add an ICE to their lineup.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Kind of tired of folks expecting CT final performance to be governed by what Ford or Rivian has been able to accomplished. Look we have the best minds in the ev/battery world working on this. This range crap about what the CT will get is exactly that. I have come to expect excellence from my company and refuse to buy anybody else’s truck until the final product is shown.

I‘m pretty sure CT standard features will be expensive add on’s from everyone else. I also expect that unlike a Lightning there won’t be an incredibly confusing array of decisions on what to add to the basic package. And I expect the range to be over and above Ford and Rivian especially towing. From the git go the Ford truck market was the target. To exceed an F150 not match it.

I might be wrong but I’m waiting. BTW I still hate the CT looks but it’s gonna be the best truck you can buy. If I’m wrong I’ll buy a Lightning. Their prices (at least the market adjustments) will drop when the final CT is revealed and their availability will go up.

Tesla has done a fantastic job with their cars, however:

1) They do not get the rated range on average. No EVs do really but Tesla is further off than others.
2) They rely greatly on efficiency for their great range, which is why anything that reduces efficiency seems to hurt Tesla's more than other EVs.
3) They have not in fact engineered significantly more dense or cheaper batteries. Their batteries, pretty much do what the other manufacturers batteries do.
4) The CT is apparently less aero than a typical pickup truck.
5) As of yet, Musk has been unable to alter physics. So the rated kWh battery pack combined with subpar aero, is going to have a pretty predictable result.

My advice to you, if max real world range is your primary concern, is I'd place a deposit on the Silverado. It's likely to more aero with a larger battery pack.

GL

 

[coleAK]

Tesla has done a fantastic job with their cars, however:

1) They do not get the rated range on average. No EVs do really but Tesla is further off than others.
2) They rely greatly on efficiency for their great range, which is why anything that reduces efficiency seems to hurt Tesla's more than other EVs.
3) They have not in fact engineered significantly more dense or cheaper batteries. Their batteries, pretty much do what the other manufacturers batteries do.
4) The CT is apparently less aero than a typical pickup truck.
5) As of yet, Musk has been unable to alter physics. So the rated kWh battery pack combined with subpar aero, is going to have a pretty predictable result.

My advice to you, if max real world range is your primary concern, is I'd place a deposit on the Silverado. It's likely to more aero with a larger battery pack.
LGL

In the summer (June-September) I have some of the most energy friendly driving possible. Most days never gets above 70F, mostly drive in town at <50 mph, no AC, no traffic, For summer I’m slightly above rated of 257 Wh/mi. The other 8 months a year I’ll average ~350 Wh/mi.

Everything else is spot on. People forget that drag is a function of surface area and the CT is huge. Also people think Tesla makes the most aerodynamic cars ever imagined. But a new 2022 Model S has about the same air drag as a 1947 saab 92, so yes Elon does not know how to change physics.

People also forget Elon did not start tesla and tesla do not make most of their batteries.

Funny I have a CT reservation and a Silverado EV, canceled my Rivian.

 

[FastEddieB]

Ram & Ford are both exploring on-board generators, which I am fully behind as a great solution.

That seems to come precariously close to a niche which could be filled by a PHEV pickup. No?

 

[FastEddieB]

4) The CT is apparently less aero than a typical pickup truck.

Really? At first glance it seems far more aero than current pickups.

edited to add: Google tells me the CyberTruck will come in with a c/d of about .39. While “Pickup truck designs are, for the most part, extremely similar and generally have a bad drag coefficient between 0.55 and 0.65 Cd.”

 

[ThomasD]

Some people who own the Luxury trim level trucks also work them. You can get a rubber floor covering instead of carpet in The highest trim levels of the Super Duties

 

[coleAK]

Really? At first glance it seems far more aero than current pickups.

edited to add: Google tells me the CyberTruck will come in with a c/d of about .39. While “Pickup truck designs are, for the most part, extremely similar and generally have a bad drag coefficient between 0.55 and 0.65 Cd.”

My 2013 LX570 cd is 0.35, Rivian got 0.3 in the R1T.

Also cd is only one part of aero drag. And no matter what the Cd is, the area of the CT will be huge.

Drag = Cd * A * 0.5 * r * V^2
Cd = drag coefficient
A = front profile surface area
r = air density
V = velocity.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Really? At first glance it seems far more aero than current pickups.

edited to add: Google tells me the CyberTruck will come in with a c/d of about .39. While “Pickup truck designs are, for the most part, extremely similar and generally have a bad drag coefficient between 0.55 and 0.65 Cd.”

I agree that the CT LOOKS more aero to my eyes as well.

However: "The Tesla Cybertruck with its interesting design offered a surprise in the first independent aerodynamic performance simulation test. It comes in at an unofficial 0.39 drag coefficient."

Tesla Cybertruck electric pickup surprises in aerodynamic performance simulation

The Tesla Cybertruck with its interesting design offered a surprise in the first independent aerodynamic performance simulation test. It comes...

electrek.co

For comparison the 2019 ICE Silverado's actual numbers are: "To help the All-New Silverado achieve a .38 drag coefficient and a 7.5% improvement in aerodynamics, Chevrolet engineers spent over 500 hours in the wind tunnel, testing airflow around the vehicle. A longer wheelbase and wide, muscular stance provide a powerful base."

2019 Chevrolet Silverado | Noblesville, IN

The 2019 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 for sale in Noblesville and Indianapolis, Indiana. Shop the All-New Chevy Silverado at Hare Chevrolet.

www.harechevy.com

So the new EV Silverado just by not having a radiator will be better than the 2019 ICE Silverado.

As Cole pointed out, surface area is a factor as well.

We of course won't really know until the vehicles hit the ground and are actually tested, and even then we likely will have no choice but to go by the manufacturers statements, and to be blunt, I trust GM to tell the truth but expect Musk to swap the tires and remove the mirrors to show an inflated number, such as he is.