When will Tesla design and manufacture tires?

[Model 3]

If there's a material that would do the job of the tire better that hasn't been used before for some other reason, that would be a potential improvement in tires worth adopting.

That's reminds me that tiers is probably the one place I do not have heard anything about a potential for the new wonder material of the 21th century - Graphene.

But, back to the question: Will Tesla produce a better tiers for their cars?

• Did Tesla invent a better ICE engine for their cars? No, they went for an different technology instead.
• Did Tesla invent a better sliding door for Model X? No, they made something different instead.
• So will they make a better tier? No, they will instead find a way to drop the tires from their cars.

Welcome to the new word of electric autonomous flying cars from Tesla


On a more serious side: Did Tesla produce a better battery? No, they got Panasonic to produce it by their spec. And this is what they will do with the tires, they will get someone else (Hanook?) to produce what they want. Until it is time to drop the tiers...

 

[Xminus6]

Ugly isnt the main reason. They don't work well for moderate high speed because well a cushion of air is softer and the tweels tend to get stuff stuck in them (mud, gravel, birds, etc) which really throws them off balance.

Tesla should focus on tires only when they are really bored. Also, separate tires are one more extra layer of defense in liability suits.

I read something about them recently that said there was a problem with them getting harmonically imbalanced at certain speeds. Makes more sense then the ugly or stuff stuck in them reasons since it would be relatively easy to enclose them in some way to look more like traditional tires. I think they left them open-ended like that for the gee-whiz factor.

 

[shrspeedblade]

I thought of the tweel as well. If they could solve the problems associated with them and then pair them with an air suspension- move the air holding part of the suspension to an area not so easily punctured- it could be a bonus especially for cars that don't carry a spare. The ridiculous wagon wheel look is so en vogue anyway!

On a side note: I don't think modern tire manufacturers are doing a bad job at all.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

I appreciate many people informed opinions here, but I don't think anyone has even mentioned Tesla Network.

Model 3 owners that decide to add their cars to Tesla Network will keep a close eye on long-term maintenance cost.

Long-lasting high-performance tires is an obvious next step here.

After heaving read this thread, I agree that Tesla will likely first try to work with tire manufacturers to customize its tires to fit its unique needs.

But if that doesn't work, I don't see why Tesla wouldn't go it alone.

Keep in mind that:

1. Long-lasting tires would save Model S3XY owners tens of thousands of dollars over 1m+ miles and/or increase residual values.
2. Long-lasting tires would save Tesla hundreds of millions of dollars in service/employee time/cost.
3. Tires are the bottleneck for 0-60 time.
4. Tesla could extend the range of its cars via custom tire design.

All of these are easier to accomplish if tire r&d, design, and manufacturing are insourced.

 

[Doug_G]

You can make a tire very long lasting by making the compound so hard it doesn't grip the road properly. There are many compromises to tire design, and optimizing one parameter at the expense of others could easily result in poor handling and less safety.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

You can make a tire very long lasting by making the compound so hard it doesn't grip the road properly. There are many compromises to tire design, and optimizing one parameter at the expense of others could easily result in poor handling and less safety.

There are many compromises to all choices in life, and literally everything Elon Musk has ever improved by an order of magnitude.

 

[wdolson]

There are many compromises to all choices in life, and literally everything Elon Musk has ever improved by an order of magnitude.

There is probably a reason Elon Musk has never made any noises about improving tires. I would not be surprised if he's looked at it and determined there is nothing significant he could do to improve tire design. There are some technologies that are behind the curve of what's possible with modern science and the state of the art and other things that don't have a lot of room for improvement.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

There is probably a reason Elon Musk has never made any noises about improving tires. I would not be surprised if he's looked at it and determined there is nothing significant he could do to improve tire design. There are some technologies that are behind the curve of what's possible with modern science and the state of the art and other things that don't have a lot of room for improvement.

He's starting to make noise if you read between the lines, which is what prompted me to post this prediction.

 

[jbcarioca]

I appreciate many people informed opinions here, but I don't think anyone has even mentioned Tesla Network.

Model 3 owners that decide to add their cars to Tesla Network will keep a close eye on long-term maintenance cost.

Long-lasting high-performance tires is an obvious next step here.

After heaving read this thread, I agree that Tesla will likely first try to work with tire manufacturers to customize its tires to fit its unique needs.

But if that doesn't work, I don't see why Tesla wouldn't go it alone.

Keep in mind that:

1. Long-lasting tires would save Model S3XY owners tens of thousands of dollars over 1m+ miles and/or increase residual values.
2. Long-lasting tires would save Tesla hundreds of millions of dollars in service/employee time/cost.
3. Tires are the bottleneck for 0-60 time.
4. Tesla could extend the range of its cars via custom tire design.

All of these are easier to accomplish if tire r&d, design, and manufacturing are insourced.

Entertaining that essentially no manufacturers of mobile equipment manufacture their own tires. Tire designers have done a really outstanding job with specialty tires. The industry has become more concentrated than it was 30 years ago but innovation has not stopped at all.
More and more technology is being applied that is making tires both cheaper and far more consistent, reducing rolling resistance and creating [pretty easy customisation. That should play havoc with scale economies but numerical process controls are letting that happen too. The aftermarket is a bit of a hurdle...
The annual convention in Germany is quite a sight:

Tire Technology Expo 2017 | Smart Tire Factory | Connected Enterprise | Rockwell Automation UK

...

My earlier post explains why I do not think direct tire manufacturing is in the future for Tesla. Obviously, they could do their own if they chose to do so. However, your four points are valid, but your idea that these improvements are easier if insourced is not supported by the evidence. Tires have rapidly improved during the last few years with ultra-low rolling resistance, extremely high durability, high impact resistance and high traction (surface condition optimized also) vying for dominance. Optimal designs now are available and are already common. Because the existing manufacturers have already been improving so much there is little to gain for Tesla to try.

Tesla and SpaceX are examples of changing existing conventions and paradigms and making major advances in practicality in the process. Neither required doing everything internally although both are far more vertically integrated than has been typical in their industry.

Tires are different. Nothing has impeded major advances. Not too long ago it was exceedingly difficult to find tires efficiently optimized for different uses. Now they are. From the very sticky Tesla standard 21" tire on SP100D to the base highly durable and low rolling resistance 19" on S100D to the snow and ice options there are already vastly superior choices than were common even two years ago.

Right now there are tires with 60,000 mile typical life widely available. A quick look at taxi and other high durability applications show that there are already myriad choices for the type of high durability service that autonomous vehicles will need.

Your four points are already covered by multiple manufacturers and are getting better every day.

For example, My P85D at 30,000 miles still has another 5,000 miles or so before needing replacement. What 5000 pound high performance vehicles had such durability a decade ago?

In sum, we should be paying attention to problems that do not have excellent solutions available already. Tires are not a problem needing new solutions that are not already happening.

Autonomy, energy density, power density, energy storage costs, energy storage durability, manufacturing simplicity, industrial quality control...these are issues for which excellent solutions are not yet in production.

 

[Doug_G]

There are many compromises to all choices in life, and literally everything Elon Musk has ever improved by an order of magnitude.

As @jbcarioca has pointed out, Elon is extremely rational about where he puts his efforts. He first determines whether success is a possible outcome, e.g. is this theoretically plausible? He determined that hydrogen was not plausible, so he is not making fuel cell cars. He has also focused on things that would have a substantial impact on society - sustainable energy production and consumption, the internet, spaceflight, rapid transit, etc.

Tire technology has been making good strides, and it isn't a technology where there is some obvious leap that no one has taken. It also isn't going to create a disruptive change to the future of mankind. I really can't see Elon focusing on it.