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Who has lost regen with winter tires?
- Thread starter Darthbenji
- Start date
Tried - no effect. Regen is gone for me at highway speeds
Yep it's been suggested and proved not to help by several folks. It was the first thing I tried when it stopped working - I figured "maybe they accidentally switched it off".
As also noted in this thread, Tesla have engineering folks working on this - it's not a quick fix AFAIK.
Note that my situation seems to be different than the core of this thread (though I wouldn't be surprised if it's all related). I'm driving an AWD with 18" aero w/ stock all season tires. The regen loss occurred after the FW update on Friday to 42.3 and not changing over tires. To make matters worse, I'll be switching to winter tires on Monday morning so it's going to add another variable...
I've noticed this as well. I have an AWD on 18" aero's, and I've noticed that regen is not as powerful after the 42.3 update. I'm getting non-Tesla winter wheels and tires put on this Friday and I'll be interested to see if there's further regen reduction.
One thing I noticed in the 42.3 Release Notes compared to what I saw online with the 42.2 Release Notes, is the omission of the Regenerative Braking improvement. The only release comment I had in 42.3 was about the Keys.
How do you like your Nokean WRG4? I was also very interested in this tire for the winter swap out.
From the other board:
“I'm confident that Tesla will, in time, offer a solution that allows the use of "squirmy" winter tires for those who think they need the extra bit of traction they provide on most snowy surfaces. Having said that, I hope whatever solution Tesla comes up with doesn't handicap the winter performance for the rest of us by detuning the electronic traction aids. Let me explain.
Judging by the verbiage some people use to describe this issue, it's apparent they think the "issue" is some kind of defect or fault with the car. But those who understand the actual mechanics of what is going on here have a different take. The issue described actually highlights just how instantaneous and capable Tesla's electronic traction aids really are. And this is very important for the development of cars that can drive themselves on slippery surfaces as well as for the safety of cars driven by humans on surfaces with very little traction. The early detection of a slipping tire is irreplaceable in its ability to improve the performance of electronic aids in the slipperiest of conditions.
When conditions get extremely slippery (think black ice), many cars electronic traction aids fail to perform adequately and allow the slightest road crown or a small steering correction to initiate a slide that cannot be corrected in time. The benefit of a sensitive system is it can prevent that from happening and makes the system more capable in the kind of conditions in which electronic aids are most beneficial. If the electronic aids are de-tuned such that they will work with even the squirmiest tires available, then the sensitive performance that is so valuable in the slipperiest of conditions is negated.
Ironically, the sensitive nature of Tesla's system is precisely so the system can provide more regen under conditions in which it's safe to provide more regen. De-tuning the system so it works with the squirmiest tires would require that tesla dial the regen back more when it's a bit slippery out. Because there would be more uncertainty as to just how slippery it is. For that reason, I hope Tesla devises a solution that only de-tunes the traction aids if the owner mounts squirmy tires. That way, those of us who prefer winter tires that provide better feedback and precision can maximize the value of that precision with a system that still detects the slightest initial loss of traction. EV's have a large advantage in this arena due to how much lighter the rotating mass of the motor/drivetrain is. A lighter drivetrain is a key advantage under very slippery conditions and Tesla is smart to try to take full advantage of that to produce cars that are safer and more secure than ever”
My 2 cents: I’d like my regen back. I can turn it to low when it snows. Most of the winter the asphalt is dry and clear.
“I'm confident that Tesla will, in time, offer a solution that allows the use of "squirmy" winter tires for those who think they need the extra bit of traction they provide on most snowy surfaces. Having said that, I hope whatever solution Tesla comes up with doesn't handicap the winter performance for the rest of us by detuning the electronic traction aids. Let me explain.
Judging by the verbiage some people use to describe this issue, it's apparent they think the "issue" is some kind of defect or fault with the car. But those who understand the actual mechanics of what is going on here have a different take. The issue described actually highlights just how instantaneous and capable Tesla's electronic traction aids really are. And this is very important for the development of cars that can drive themselves on slippery surfaces as well as for the safety of cars driven by humans on surfaces with very little traction. The early detection of a slipping tire is irreplaceable in its ability to improve the performance of electronic aids in the slipperiest of conditions.
When conditions get extremely slippery (think black ice), many cars electronic traction aids fail to perform adequately and allow the slightest road crown or a small steering correction to initiate a slide that cannot be corrected in time. The benefit of a sensitive system is it can prevent that from happening and makes the system more capable in the kind of conditions in which electronic aids are most beneficial. If the electronic aids are de-tuned such that they will work with even the squirmiest tires available, then the sensitive performance that is so valuable in the slipperiest of conditions is negated.
Ironically, the sensitive nature of Tesla's system is precisely so the system can provide more regen under conditions in which it's safe to provide more regen. De-tuning the system so it works with the squirmiest tires would require that tesla dial the regen back more when it's a bit slippery out. Because there would be more uncertainty as to just how slippery it is. For that reason, I hope Tesla devises a solution that only de-tunes the traction aids if the owner mounts squirmy tires. That way, those of us who prefer winter tires that provide better feedback and precision can maximize the value of that precision with a system that still detects the slightest initial loss of traction. EV's have a large advantage in this arena due to how much lighter the rotating mass of the motor/drivetrain is. A lighter drivetrain is a key advantage under very slippery conditions and Tesla is smart to try to take full advantage of that to produce cars that are safer and more secure than ever”
My 2 cents: I’d like my regen back. I can turn it to low when it snows. Most of the winter the asphalt is dry and clear.
I want to confirm that I am experiencing this issue with the Winter Tire Package available on the Tesla shop. i.e. the PIRELLI WINTER SOTTOZERO™ SERIE II + 18X8.5J Aero wheels.
I have the RWD version. I also want to note that the latest firmware update with the 'Improved Regen Breaking' made the regen breaking feel worse. The next day, I had my winter tires installed, so its hard to determine whether the update or tires are the source of the issue. Otherise, my issue is as stated, almost no regen breaking above 30+ km/h.
I have the RWD version. I also want to note that the latest firmware update with the 'Improved Regen Breaking' made the regen breaking feel worse. The next day, I had my winter tires installed, so its hard to determine whether the update or tires are the source of the issue. Otherise, my issue is as stated, almost no regen breaking above 30+ km/h.
navguy12
Active Member
Thanks for sharing that but I have to admit it doesn't feel like it aligns with what I'm experiencing, or I just don't get how this works, which is entirely possible. I'm not having "traction" issues in "snow", I'm having lack of regen (stopping issues) in a variety of temperatures (between -5C and +15C) ever since changing tires. Symptoms for me are as follows:
BEFORE: Say I'm going 50km/h and I let off the accelerator completely, I'd get a fairly aggressive "engine braking" reaction from the car, usually enough to bring me cleanly to a stop as required, usually having to actually accelerate a bit so it's not too sudden.
AFTER WINTER TIRES FITTED: In that same situation, letting my foot off the accelerator I'll only very gradually lose a little bit of speed and see a small amount of green re-gen but essentially the car keeps on going. The same situations where I could stop without touching the brakes would have me go sailing on through. Re-gen is now nowhere near enough to stop me - I always have to brake, sometimes quite aggressively if conditions change. It's a night and day difference.
See how I'm having trouble thinking of this as a "traction" issue? Like I say, maybe I'm just not understanding how traction = regen. I think of regen more like engine braking. Have I got it wrong?
I hate to say good cause it isn’t. I’m just glad the ‘non recommended’ tire stuff Tesla has been sending to some of us in response to our tickets should end.
Not saying I share the view. I just wanted to let people here know what one user elsewhere said. He also said the experience of people like pqumsieh aren’t necessarily true when I posted that a user here were reporting the same problem with the pirellis. I was pissed at that and said so. I’m not allowed to post there anymore. I’ve included a screen shot of what his take was on the problem.
Attachments
What you're describing sounds like the loss of regen I had on my AWD when the software was updated to 42.3 from 39.x. I've been driving the same route nearly every day for a 1+ month since I got the car. I know certain hills, round-abouts, intersections very well. On the old software I would know exactly when to release the pedal to come close to a full stop at the intersection. The day of the software update I had to slam the brakes or else risk blowing through a red light. That's when I noted something was odd. Now it's very clear that there is pretty much no regen for me above certain speeds (around 60/70 km/h). I will see if I can take a video to demonstrate before I get the winters on next weekend.
The effect can even be seen on the screen. The green regen lines shows up, but there isn't enough deceleration to activate the brake lights.
I had some back and forth with that guy on the other board. He seems to think that we should only use the Pirelli winter tire that Tesla sells. And he keeps saying there is no issue with the car. Not sure why, but he doesn’t get that some of us need a more serious winter tire than the Pirelli and the car should be able to deal with any reasonable tire that’s installed.
And to further his narrative he dismisses that the perellis can have the issue too.
More to the point -- if they're going to say you can only use Pirelli's... well... perhaps it would have been a good idea for them to communicate that somewhere prior to Canadian winter. I'm just sayin...
Even more to the point: if they’re going to say use pirellis they should work. Two users here have them and they don’t.
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