Who has lost regen with winter tires?

[Mtlgambler]

Looks like Tesla is working to find a fix for this. I got a call from them today asking when my car would be parked so they could log in and change some configs. The same engineer called me back about an hour later to follow up to see if the changes they made made any difference. Unfortunately they hadn’t. He said because I have the Tesla Sottozero package which is the only approved setup at the moment that it was tested and validated and that the reduced Regen should not occur. He was able to log timestamps of when the Regen failed while we were tested post config updating. They will continue to test and tweak until they find the solution. It kind of feels weird being a guinea pig for this but I must admit it is kind of cool that a company would reach out to an individual owner and make changes on the fly like this. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of GM or Toyota doing that!

I will continue to update as I get more information

 

[dusdev]

"which is the only approved setup" ... I'm wondering where exactly the official list of approved setup exists. I don't remember reading in the owners manual about "approved winter tires". I would assume like with 99.9999% of cars on the road if you match the tire size you should be okay.

 

[Darthbenji]

"which is the only approved setup" ... I'm wondering where exactly the official list of approved setup exists. I don't remember reading in the owners manual about "approved winter tires". I would assume like with 99.9999% of cars on the road if you match the tire size you should be okay.

Agreed. I wish they’d get off that. If it had said anywhere my car wouldn’t work properly if I don’t use the tires they sell I’d have certainly considered them. Plus, they still don’t work right!!!

 

[CCIE]

I also have Michelin x-ice xi3 tires on aero wheels and regen appears to be working normally.

What tire pressure are you

Looks like Tesla is working to find a fix for this. I got a call from them today asking when my car would be parked so they could log in and change some configs. The same engineer called me back about an hour later to follow up to see if the changes they made made any difference. Unfortunately they hadn’t. He said because I have the Tesla Sottozero package which is the only approved setup at the moment that it was tested and validated and that the reduced Regen should not occur. He was able to log timestamps of when the Regen failed while we were tested post config updating. They will continue to test and tweak until they find the solution. It kind of feels weird being a guinea pig for this but I must admit it is kind of cool that a company would reach out to an individual owner and make changes on the fly like this. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of GM or Toyota doing that!

I will continue to update as I get more information

I don’t want to say I’m glad that you’re experiencing this issue, but I am! It seemed like Tesla was going to try to ignore this issue and blame it on “unapproved” tires. But if they acknowledge that it’s an issue for the Sottozero’s then they’re more likely to release a fix for us all.

It’s crazy to hear that they don’t have an easy fix for this and are relying on trial-and-error testing with consumers.

 

[ElectricCanada]

Have driven about 70km after changing to winter tires today. Regen seems to be working as expected, and my TPMS sensors have not re-calibrated to the winters yet so it isn't getting any info from it.

LR
AWD
18" Replika R187 wheels
Nokian Hakkapalita R3
Tesla TPMS
42.3

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Have driven about 70km after changing to winter tires today. Regen seems to be working as expected, and my TPMS sensors have not re-calibrated to the winters yet so it isn't getting any info from it.

LR
AWD
18" Replika R187 wheels
Nokian Hakkapalita R3
Tesla TPMS
42.3

You likely wouldn't have been affected. It seems to only be affecting RWD cars.

 

[Ludatik]

Installed Continental WinterContact SI tires on the stock 18” Aero wheels. Reused the stock TPMS. Experiencing weak regen at higher speeds as reported by others here. It’s the first time I’ve experienced the car effectively coasting. I’m on 42.3. I sent in a complaint via the portal.

Received the email below in response to my complaint:

Thank you for reaching out to us here at Tesla. We currently have this concern under investigation and are working on a solution with our engineers. The car is safe to drive in this state and we recommend using low Regen mode for the best consistency until a fix can be rolled out.

Best regards,
<redacted> | Executive Care
6800 Dumbarton Circle, Fremont, CA 94555

At least they didn’t spew the “Tesla authorized” winter tires line.

 

[huangbong]

I'll supply some interesting data points here. I experienced this exact issue as well, with a few differences that I'll explain.

TPMS Type (Winter): Autel Sensor-1, fully Tesla compatible, not cloned, new IDs generated
TPMS Reset Prompt: Yes, "New sensors detected / Select wheel size", then "Reset Successful"
TPMS Pressure Status: 42 psi
Delivered Wheel Size: 19" Sport + Continental ProContact RX 235/40R19
Winter Wheel Size: 18" Aero
Winter Tire Type: Nokian WRG4 235/45R18
Model 3: LR RWD
Temperature: Fully warm, no limited regen dots
Regen Status: Limited regen at high speeds, nearly normal regen kicks in at around 30-25 MPH. The most noticable speed range where regen was limited was 40-30 MPH. I never experienced no regen, but the limitation I saw was about half of normal. This occurred for the first 200-300 miles of driving on the WRG4's. After that, the regen slowly returned to normal and is now nearly fully normal after 500 miles of driving.

Points of interest:

• The all-weather Nokian WRG4 tires are most certainly a tire that will exhibit this problem, although perhaps to a lesser degree than dedicated winter tires..
• Like others, my regen was limited at high and medium speeds, then will "grab" at lower speeds. In my case, the point where it begins to feel normal was between 30-25 MPH.
• My regen was never a "no regen" case, it was only limited. Typical response at the higher speeds was about 1/2 of normal regen.
• I am using Tesla Aero rims.
• I don't feel that TPMS has anything to do with this issue.
• I do feel that this issue may be isolated to RWD vehicles.
• I feel that the tread release compound on brand new tires contributes to the problem. The break-in period for new tires to remove this tread release compound is around 300-500 miles.
• My regen slowly returned to nearly normal after 500 miles of driving, which is enough time for the tread release compound to break down and disappear.
• I am in the Southern US, temperatures here have been very mild, nothing below 60F. (I put these winter tires on early for other unrelated reasons. Please, no comments along the lines of "why are you using winter tires in the southern US?" Answer: Because I want to. )
• This is not a v9 software issue -- most of my data here was gathered under 2018.36.2, which is the final v8 software.

To supply additional data, I have a P3D+ vehicle that I'm about to swap to a set of all-weather tires. In this case, they will be the Vredestein Quatrac 5's on T-Sportline 18" wheels. I will report here what those behave like when I get them installed. The Vredestein is very similar to the Nokian WRG4 - it's an all-weather tire with the 3-peak mountain/snow symbol, but can be run year-round. The tire is the same size as the Nokian (235/45R18).

If we are correct that this issue affects RWD cars only, then I will have a good data point to compare, since both of my Model 3's are being driven in the same temperatures and conditions.

How are you liking the Nokians?

 

[richyrich]

I'm wondering where exactly the official list of approved setup exists. I don't remember reading in the owners manual about "approved winter tires".

There isn't a list, they're just talking about the one winter package they sell out of the service centres. And I don't think it was indicated that it's approved, or the only setup that is. So you can stop looking.

TBH I think Tesla are making it up as they go along on this issue (like several others). The good thing however is they're being responsive, relatively open and clearly working to fix it. If this was any other brand can you imagine even trying to get updates from your dealership, let alone getting fairly detailed HQ updates, engineers calling people to test tweaks on their cars and clear movement within days of us all starting to report it?

If it was my old ICE dealer, I'd still be waiting for the appointment a week or two out, I'd have to bring the car in to deal with it and there's a very good chance they'd keep it for a day then tell me it's working as it's supposed to, because it's too much hassle, it wouldn't generate much servicing revenue and they probably had their top 17yo trainee to look at it.

I'm loving having a Tesla, even the process of dealing with issues like this.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

LR RWD here on R3s and aftermarket rims.

Logged ~2500kms on the winter tires and regen issue still present. Not so bad considering it's still better than an ice car .

 

[dusdev]

TBH I think Tesla are making it up as they go along on this issue (like several others). The good thing however is they're being responsive, relatively open and clearly working to fix it. If this was any other brand can you imagine even trying to get updates from your dealership, let alone getting fairly detailed HQ updates, engineers calling people to test tweaks on their cars and clear movement within days of us all starting to report it?

Not saying that Tesla isn't putting effort into the issue... though I think poking at a car remotely and tweaking parameters and asking the remote (customer) operator to provide feedback is an absolute horrible engineering exercise. If they were uber serious about solving this they would have the Tesla engineers on a plane to Montreal or Ottawa, get a Model 3 installed with whichever tires, and be running it around the city monitoring with on-board diagnostics in real-time to figure this thing out.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Not saying that Tesla isn't putting effort into the issue... though I think poking at a car remotely and tweaking parameters and asking the remote (customer) operator to provide feedback is an absolute horrible engineering exercise. If they were uber serious about solving this they would have the Tesla engineers on a plane to Montreal or Ottawa, get a Model 3 installed with whichever tires, and be running it around the city monitoring with on-board diagnostics in real-time to figure this thing out.

I'd be happy to be a guinea pig for some free swag XD (hoarder here!)

 

[CCIE]

InsideEVs has a post about the issue on their site. Hopefully that will accelerate Tesla's fix!

Tesla Model 3 RWD Loses Regen With Winter Tires?

 

[pcons]

So, I changed over to my winter tires this weekend and re-measured the regen force, and even on my AWD I do see a difference in the regen at high speed, and then at low speeds it seems 'normal' as others have noted. Below is a plot with some markups of the comparisons, but to make sure I'm clear on the configs:

summer plot:
OEM 18" tires
After market rims (same weight as aero's ~ 20.5 lbs)
After market TPMS
Starting speed 100 km/h coming off the highway at winston churchill in mississauga

winter plot:
continental SI winter 18" tires
OEM aero rims with no aero hub caps
OEM TPMS
Starting speed 100 km/h coming off the highway at winston churchill in mississauga

There are some fluctuations up and down because I couldn't just take the car to a full stop since there were cars behind me. On my test this morning (winter plot) I did bring the car down to ~ 20km/h and at the trailing end of the plot you can see when the 2nd stage of regen kicked in at ~ 30 km/h (blue arrow).

This thread has a lot of people reporting the same thing, but I thought having a visual comparison that is somewhat apples to apples would help put things in context.

Also, since I have an AWD it would be interesting to see a similar comparison on a RWD car since some have commented this issue isn't on AWD (or likely less affected). I wouldn't say I have zero regen at high speeds, but it does seem softer. Also I see the same thing others have said where the regen green bar seems to 'flutter' a bit at higher speeds.

So, to add some more comments to the above plot:

Summer (blue) plot:

Initially I slowed down from ~ 100 km/h to 50, then had to speed up a bit (where the force increases at about 18s on the y-axis). The second major dip at around 30 sec brought the car to an almost complete stop, and you can see that the force maxed out at ~ 0.25g.

Winter (orange) plot:

The initial 'drop' in force was about 1/2 of the drop from before the change to winter tires, and interestingly the force slowly increases at about the same slope as the summer plot. But then you see at around 20 seconds I hit 30 km/h and the increased regen kicked in (blue arrow). I couldn't let the car come to a full stop there unfortunately because I was well short of the stoplight so had to give it some gas to keep moving forward. If I had stayed off the accelerator though I expect the force would have reached ~ 0.25g and stabilized there. Ignore the rest of the plot because I had to speed up, and the huge dip at 40 seconds was me using brakes to come to a stop.

 

[pcons]

InsideEVs has a post about the issue on their site. Hopefully that will accelerate Tesla's fix!

Tesla Model 3 RWD Loses Regen With Winter Tires?

Interesting how this article references about 50% less regen force. That's almost exactly what I measured/mention in my last post. However I have an AWD, so this issue doesn't appear to be limited to RWD as the article says.

I do only have ~ 100km on the new tires, and others have reported the car 're learns' after 500-1000km, so I'll repeat the same test in a week or so and see if there is any difference.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

How are you liking the Nokians?

The WRG4's are awesome. Now that the release compound has worn off they're nicely grippy in the cold and wet. Since I'm down south, we don't get much snow and ice so I can't comment there, but they're clearly better than summer tires or all-season tires on wet cold roads.

I also had a set of WRG3's on my leased Model S, they were very similar -- nice and safe road feel in the cold/wet.

 

[dusdev]

Interesting how this article references about 50% less regen force. That's almost exactly what I measured/mention in my last post. However I have an AWD, so this issue doesn't appear to be limited to RWD as the article says.

This is what I've been saying for a while. The issue is also not limited with winter tires! It started on 42.3 for me (on the OEM Michelin 18"). Basically, from my perspective, Tesla broke regen on the Model 3 (for high speeds, at least) and it seems to be more predominant for RWD w/ winter tires, but it's showing up on lots of cars under different configs.

For me, above 70/80, it's almost as if regen completely went away. Tesla support said take the car to a service center. I had no issue on the Thursday before the firmware update (from 39.x) and then Friday it went bad after the update to 42.3.

 

[CCIE]

This is what I've been saying for a while. The issue is also not limited with winter tires! It started on 42.3 for me (on the OEM Michelin 18"). Basically, from my perspective, Tesla broke regen on the Model 3 (for high speeds, at least) and it seems to be more predominant for RWD w/ winter tires, but it's showing up on lots of cars under different configs.

For me, above 70/80, it's almost as if regen completely went away. Tesla support said take the car to a service center. I had no issue on the Thursday before the firmware update (from 39.x) and then Friday it went bad after the update to 42.3.

I don't doubt that you're seeing an issue. But, people were reporting the winter tire regen issue on v39.x. So, it seems unrelated to v42.x.

 

[dusdev]

I don't doubt that you're seeing an issue. But, people were reporting the winter tire regen issue on v39.x. So, it seems unrelated to v42.x.

Disagree. I think that the issue is related to firmware. It was pretty wide spread knowledge that 42.x incorporated changes to regen (apparently it was originally for "Improved Regen", then it was changed to "Improved Regen for RWD"). But nonetheless, it's clear that something changed with respect to regen going to 42.x. For me, the effect was loss of regen at highway speeds (on AWD). That is not to say that there wasn't an issue prior to 42.x with winter tires.

But, I think there is enough evidence that it's all related. Firmware, winter tires, car configuration (AWD/RWD), exterior temperature, battery temperature, etc. The bottom line for me is that regen is broken on Model 3 I don't really care if it's firmware, hardware, or a combination of both .. but Tesla needs to address it ASAP. I don't think it does anyone any good to speculate that it affects one configuration and not another, when that clearly is not the case.

I think that we can put to rest that it's only RWD (observation from multiple people have shown this is not the truth). It seems to primary affect people with winter tires (but not exclusively).

 

[eepic]

a

Disagree. I think that the issue is related to firmware. It was pretty wide spread knowledge that 42.x incorporated changes to regen (apparently it was originally for "Improved Regen", then it was changed to "Improved Regen for RWD"). But nonetheless, it's clear that something changed with respect to regen going to 42.x. For me, the effect was loss of regen at highway speeds (on AWD). That is not to say that there wasn't an issue prior to 42.x with winter tires.

But, I think there is enough evidence that it's all related. Firmware, winter tires, car configuration (AWD/RWD), exterior temperature, battery temperature, etc. The bottom line for me is that regen is broken on Model 3 I don't really care if it's firmware, hardware, or a combination of both .. but Tesla needs to address it ASAP. I don't think it does anyone any good to speculate that it affects one configuration and not another, when that clearly is not the case.

I think that we can put to rest that it's only RWD (observation from multiple people have shown this is not the truth). It seems to primary affect people with winter tires (but not exclusively).

I disagree, the more we can help isolate the issue the better.

Until we have more reports of issues with regen with just a firmware update and no other changes (given the widespread rollout of 42.x), I'm not really convinced. In either case whatever you are experiencing would be a separate issue. This discussion is about the almost unanimous reports that snow tires are causing these issues across all fw versions.