Why do people really want Tesla to fail?

[jbcarioca]

Tesla symbolises nearly everything the general public thinks of as 'Silicon Valley'.

For some people that is a huge durable advantage.

For other people that is a great part of 'what is wrong with the world'.

Like it or not, Tesla represents, in part, a political statement for many people. I have heard such opinions around the world, but more so in the US.

Most commonly these opinions are expressed in phrases like: "autopilots are a menace", "Tesla loses money on every car, it costs more to build one than they can sell it for", "There is no way to charge the things". "They would not survive without government subsidies". Many, but not all, have more grammatical errors than I am making in this post.

For people who have these views, driving one just makes it worse. They are not about to see Tesla as a representation of the future, unless it is a dystopian future.

Many smaller short sellers fit in this category.

 

[cellogig]

Well this is why I asked the question. I hope Elon doesn’t drag the company down because I love my car and I think with any faults it has it’s the best car I have ever owned.

I appreciate this thread. But now it is time to figure out how people on this forum can make it positive with their purchase of a Tesla.

The people who post negative threads on this site really do have a problem or problems with their vehicles that is why there are service centers. Some people were never really educated properly on delivery. It is going to get worst as more cars roll out. Some people’s grasps of understanding of the this new technology is different then others. They need more time on delivery. They may need positive encouragement of their purchase from the company or especially this forum.

There are many owners on the model 3 site that have not taken deliveries or have been invited to configure. They are lurkers or occasional posters. They have waited over 2 years for the day to come. Some even post their excitement with a new thread or video of their new car. Some of those threads get pushed down to the cellar of threads without any positive replies or a couple of replies. Those are positive threads. I really don’t want to know why people do not respond. This thread I am writing is to be positive and how to help this forum have a better image. So keep it to yourself.

Me personally have been in the middle of the key phone and fob debate. Some of the old timers of this forum are not sympathic. Run with that statement if you like. It is a legitimate problem otherwise there would be not so many threads posted already. I have my reasons. People love negativity TMZ Page 6 and media. As you realize some of the media has used negative comments on this site to write their articles. Some the old timers need to help and encourage the newbies.

In closing Take the time and reach out to newbies or potential future owners and show some positive threads to their posts. Some of them are nervous about their purchase after reading the negative posts on this forum. Especially the ones that are taking delivery or just configured their cars.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I appreciate this thread. But now it is time to figure out how people on this forum can make it positive with their purchase of a Tesla.

The people who post negative threads on this site really do have a problem or problems with their vehicles that is why there are service centers. Some people were never really educated properly on delivery. It is going to get worst as more cars roll out. Some people’s grasps of understanding of the this new technology is different then others. They need more time on delivery. They may need positive encouragement of their purchase from the company or especially this forum.

There are many owners on the model 3 site that have not taken deliveries or have been invited to configure. They are lurkers or occasional posters. They have waited over 2 years for the day to come. Some even post their excitement with a new thread or video of their new car. Some of those threads get pushed down to the cellar of threads without any positive replies or a couple of replies. Those are positive threads. I really don’t want to know why people do not respond. This thread I am writing is to be positive and how to help this forum have a better image. So keep it to yourself.

Me personally have been in the middle of the key phone and fob debate. Some of the old timers of this forum are not sympathic. Run with that statement if you like. It is a legitimate problem otherwise there would be not so many threads posted already. I have my reasons. People love negativity TMZ Page 6 and media. As you realize some of the media has used negative comments on this site to write their articles. Some the old timers need to help and encourage the newbies.

In closing Take the time and reach out to newbies or potential future owners and show some positive threads to their posts. Some of them are nervous about their purchase after reading the negative posts on this forum. Especially the ones that are taking delivery or just configured their cars.

Being positive is the answer. I see Tesla supporters here dig their heels in yet don't realize what they are doing. It turns people off and drives them away.
It is all about understanding another point of view. A guy who rides a bicycle to work every day could say that buying a Tesla over a bike is destroying the environment...
and he would be right.... from his point of view. And that Tesla owner would naturally want to tell bike guy to F off... acting just like the pickup/oil guys that they hate.

I play devil's advocate around here because Tesla is a round peg that fits into a round hole. The rest of the world is made up of all different shapes. The most positive
post in response to my discussion points was a year ago: Why don't you go and test drive one?

And I did.

 

[RedOctober]

Being positive is the answer. I see Tesla supporters here dig their heels in yet don't realize what they are doing. It turns people off and drives them away.
It is all about understanding another point of view. A guy who rides a bicycle to work every day could say that buying a Tesla over a bike is destroying the environment...
and he would be right.... from his point of view. And that Tesla owner would naturally want to tell bike guy to F off... acting just like the pickup/oil guys that they hate.

I play devil's advocate around here because Tesla is a round peg that fits into a round hole. The rest of the world is made up of all different shapes. The most positive
post in response to my discussion points was a year ago: Why don't you go and test drive one?

And I did.

You are making an assumption that a Tesla owner would tell someone to F. Off if they didn’t agree with their views. So after test driving a Tesla did you purchase one or any other EV.

 

[Barklikeadog]

You are making an assumption that a Tesla owner would tell someone to F. Off if they didn’t agree with their views. So after test driving a Tesla did you purchase one or any other EV.

I did not. The Model S is a really nice car, wasn't keen on the regen braking or price. I sat in the Model X and knew that certainly wasn't for me.
The other thing I like is service. Dealerships have always treated me right and got me back on the road ASAP. One thing I noticed at the 'store/service'
center is that the lot was full of dusty customer cars. I drive past week after week and often see the same cars in the same spots on the service lot.
I don't have time to deal with that sort of thing.

I'm an outdoors/DIY type who likes utility. I often make 500mile (each way) trips... having a vehicle that can go 720 miles on a tank is pretty snarking nice.
Last year I probably hauled 30yds of mulch and several tons of dirt. Last week I had a load of split rails, posts and gates. It would cost more to have these
items delivered than I spend on gas in a year.

-IF- someone like Tesla offers a greenie pickup with the necessary capabilities, durability, and distance. I'm going to be a buyer.

I also see the other side of this. I work downtown and drive past thousands of cars which are parallel parked in different spots every day. No garage, no driveway...
and there are millions like this across the country. They have no way to charge an EV. At this time, they cannot even pay to have one installed. (approx 6k)
When I see Tesla lovers here declare 'death to ICE' they are not seeing the whole picture or understanding how others live. Cannot force a round peg into a square hole.

 

[JRP3]

Once demand is there all those cars next to parking meters will be plugged into them. It's not an impossible problem to solve and it's already happening in places. Certainly an EV will not be practical at this point in time for many people but there is still a huge untapped market where EV's are practical today. The Model 3 will help address that market, then the Y and the pickup truck, as well as models from other OEM's. If there were no Model 3 I'd probably get a Bolt.

 

[RedOctober]

I did not. The Model S is a really nice car, wasn't keen on the regen braking or price. I sat in the Model X and knew that certainly wasn't for me.
The other thing I like is service. Dealerships have always treated me right and got me back on the road ASAP. One thing I noticed at the 'store/service'
center is that the lot was full of dusty customer cars. I drive past week after week and often see the same cars in the same spots on the service lot.
I don't have time to deal with that sort of thing.

I'm an outdoors/DIY type who likes utility. I often make 500mile (each way) trips... having a vehicle that can go 720 miles on a tank is pretty snarking nice.
Last year I probably hauled 30yds of mulch and several tons of dirt. Last week I had a load of split rails, posts and gates. It would cost more to have these
items delivered than I spend on gas in a year.

-IF- someone like Tesla offers a greenie pickup with the necessary capabilities, durability, and distance. I'm going to be a buyer.

I also see the other side of this. I work downtown and drive past thousands of cars which are parallel parked in different spots every day. No garage, no driveway...
and there are millions like this across the country. They have no way to charge an EV. At this time, they cannot even pay to have one installed. (approx 6k)
When I see Tesla lovers here declare 'death to ICE' they are not seeing the whole picture or understanding how others live. Cannot force a round peg into a square hole.

I know if Europe they are hooking up charging at various street light posts or hydro poles. I agree with you that once an E-pickup truck becomes available many people will switch over. I see that comi g in the next couple years. I know Ford is stopping production of their car lines for North America. They say people want bigger vehicles so an E-pickup is a good fit for that market.

 

[gavine]

I did not. The Model S is a really nice car, wasn't keen on the regen braking

Really? That's one of my favorite things. I blame that on the rep who took you for a test drive. They should either put regen on low or explain how to use it. It's a simple as saying: "The car doesn't coast. If you want to coast, you need to put slight pressure on the go pedal". Simple as that.

 

[Brovane]

At this point the most important thing that can be done is for Tesla to deliver as many high quality cars as possible and start making a profit in the 2nd half of this year. If the Tesla financials in the Q4 of 2018 can show a strong profit without gimmicks like selling zero emission credits etc. that will shut up a lot of people.

There will always be haters but I am rooting for the US manufacturer, Tesla Motors.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Once demand is there all those cars next to parking meters will be plugged into them. It's not an impossible problem to solve and it's already happening in places. Certainly an EV will not be practical at this point in time for many people but there is still a huge untapped market where EV's are practical today. The Model 3 will help address that market, then the Y and the pickup truck, as well as models from other OEM's. If there were no Model 3 I'd probably get a Bolt.

That would be nice. No meter parking except for the business center (where you throw in a quarter and get 5 minutes)
Street parking is a free for all. Even if you were one of the very few to pay for an EV port, any EV person can use it.
People get pretty bent out of shape at the idea of reserving your own parallel parking spot, that is unlikely to change anytime soon.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Really? That's one of my favorite things. I blame that on the rep who took you for a test drive. They should either put regen on low or explain how to use it. It's a simple as saying: "The car doesn't coast. If you want to coast, you need to put slight pressure on the go pedal". Simple as that.

I've always been a coaster. I feel like I'm not in control if it is slowing down on its own

 

[JRP3]

I've always been a coaster. I feel like I'm not in control if it is slowing down on its own

You learn to hold the accelerator pedal in a neutral position so that it's neither in regen nor power delivery mode.

 

[gavine]

You learn to hold the accelerator pedal in a neutral position so that it's neither in regen nor power delivery mode.

This can be mastered in the first hour of ownership.

 

[MattEnth]

I'm on the short side.

Ultimately, I see a few key problems with Tesla that make me feel that it deserves failure:

• As a public company, Tesla's corporate governance is just awful. It is insane that Elon Musk, as chairman of the board, can frequently make ridiculous statements and promises. See this article for a giant list of broken promises, many of which were absurd at the moment of utterance. Musk's recent tweet of "we will be profitable in Q3/Q4 and don't need to raise money" is just the latest example of something totally absurd.
  
  
• People gave money to Tesla with the expectation of receiving profits. As a public company in a capitalist society, Tesla has an obligation to generate cash flows for its investors. It's repeatedly failed to meet that obligation.
  
  
• Environmental sustainability requires economic sustainability, which Tesla does not have. I want entrepreneurs to be trying to figure out how to make a profit in sustainable energy. Companies like Tesla instead encourage wasting money to compete for market share, before the market has even developed.

I admire Tesla because a) they've shown that there is a genuine demand for electric vehicles, and b) they've forced other auto manufacturers to up their game by designing a few very sexy cars. I think history will remember Tesla as the company that went bankrupt while sparking the electric vehicle revolution.

 

[ggr]

• People gave money to Tesla with the expectation of receiving profits. As a public company in a capitalist society, Tesla has an obligation to generate cash flows for its investors. It's repeatedly failed to meet that obligation.

Rubbish. Amazon doesn't provide cash flow. Berkshire Hathaway doesn't provide cash flow. GE provides cash flow while your investment is whittled away. "As a public company in a capitalist society", Tesla is required only to act in the best interests of its shareholders. Elon has stated many times that the way he chooses to do that is to invest in growth.

• Environmental sustainability requires economic sustainability, which Tesla does not have. I want entrepreneurs to be trying to figure out how to make a profit in sustainable energy. Companies like Tesla instead encourage wasting money to compete for market share, before the market has even developed.

The very first time I met Elon was at the meeting in Santa Monica of all the Roadster waiting list people. One of the things he said then, and has often said, "We have to make a profit or we won't be here to change the world." He's very much aware of this.

 

[ponzu]

1. Sour grapes. Most people can't afford a Tesla and hate people who can.
2. Some people want everything related to green energy to fail.
3. Many people, even his fans, find Elon to be an arrogant ass.

Sorry if these have already been stated. If there were a poll, I would vote.

 

[roblab]

1. Sour grapes. Most people can't afford a Tesla and hate people who can.
2. Some people want everything related to green energy to fail.
3. Many people, even his fans, find Elon to be an arrogant ass.

Since there is no poll, you can't know "most people", or "some people", or "many people". This is only your opinion.

To balance, I have to say that "many" people CAN afford a Tesla... Many people DO! I see a lot of expensive cars cruising in So. Cal. My blue 3 had a base of less than $30K, which is in Toyota territory. But there are a lot of people who can't afford to own any type of transportation.

No one I have met in the last nearly six years hates me because I handle my retirement. I think that owning a Tesla is cheaper than owning all those gas burners I've had over the years.

I can't buy that people want "everything related to" green energy to fail. We all have to breathe, and there are a lot of relationships to that which may not be obvious.

And just to say it, I don't find anyone an "arrogant ass". But of course, we can label anyone however we choose. I'm not sure it's "many", but if you find it is, there might be a possibility that you need to change which groups you talk to. I don't find these opinions among the people I know. But I may be picky with those to whom I speak.

 

[ponzu]

Since there is no poll, you can't know "most people", or "some people", or "many people". This is only your opinion.

To balance, I have to say that "many" people CAN afford a Tesla... Many people DO! I see a lot of expensive cars cruising in So. Cal. My blue 3 had a base of less than $30K, which is in Toyota territory. But there are a lot of people who can't afford to own any type of transportation.

No one I have met in the last nearly six years hates me because I handle my retirement. I think that owning a Tesla is cheaper than owning all those gas burners I've had over the years.

I can't buy that people want "everything related to" green energy to fail. We all have to breathe, and there are a lot of relationships to that which may not be obvious.

And just to say it, I don't find anyone an "arrogant ass". But of course, we can label anyone however we choose. I'm not sure it's "many", but if you find it is, there might be a possibility that you need to change which groups you talk to. I don't find these opinions among the people I know. But I may be picky with those to whom I speak.

I did not think the question at the head of the thread was addressed to people who want Tesla to fail. I don't think these people are here. I thought the question was to those who want Tesla to succeed, and that the author was inviting them to theorize. These are my guesses.

There is no such thing as a <$30K Tesla. What your car had as a base is immaterial, because that's not what you paid. A Tesla today starts at $39K after rebates (in CA). Plus tax.

 

[ponzu]

One thing I should have stated better: most people FEEL they can't afford a Tesla; SOME of those will hate people who can.

We are not talking about a very large population wants Tesla to fail. Therefore, we have to think really creatively to get into the small and warped minds of those who do.

 

[Barklikeadog]

One thing I should have stated better: most people FEEL they can't afford a Tesla; SOME of those will hate people who can.

We are not talking about a very large population wants Tesla to fail. Therefore, we have to think really creatively to get into the small and warped minds of those who do.

'most people' live paycheck to paycheck and have no savings.
39 million people purchased used cars last year, 17 million bought new. The biggest selling new sedans were 20k or less.