Why do people really want Tesla to fail?

[Garlan Garner]

Actually it is garbage. It's a symptom of the market not yet understanding the company. They'll get it eventually.

Nahh..the large investors aren't newbies. They fully get it. They affect Tesla's stock price more than anyone.

I'll tell you what.......let Tesla continue to miss their own objectives with their self proclaimed Profit making Model 3 and lets see what happens.

Tesla just recently made another claim that they will reach 5K model 3's per week by the end of this 2nd quarter. They actually put that out there and I believe investors heard them.
Now.....let them miss that mark and see what investors do....

This is not garbage. Its money.

 

[kablammyman]

Why do people really want Tesla to fail?

I dont think most people care if they live or die. You have the Tesla fans, and EV enthusiasts that want them to succeed. Then, theres the small minority that want Tesla to fail. I do believe that small minority probably have a lot of power/pull. These would be the oil industry and others that have something to lose if Tesla wins. Everyone else probably gets tired of the fanboys, so they use any negativity as a weapon against fan boys. I believe this mindset also extends to automotive competitors. I mean, I would get tired of an upstart company and its cult acting like they know more than I do, yet dont have the track record to prove it. I think if Tesla had a lower profile, they wouldn't get as much hate.

 

[JRP3]

I'll tell you what.......let Tesla continue to miss their own objectives with their self proclaimed Profit making Model 3 and lets see what happens.

Tesla usually misses their own objectives, for a while. Long term shareholders should have no concerns. As for the short term traders, Elon told them what to do.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla usually misses their own objectives, for a while. Long term shareholders should have no concerns. As for the short term traders, Elon told them what to do.

How many long term shareholders do you know? I'm one of them and I have concerns.

What concerns?

1. TESLA SAID they WILL be profitable in......XYZ quarter.
2. TESLA SAID they will deliver this car and that one.......in XYZ quarter.\
3. TESLA SAID that autopilot will be XYZ in .......MNO quarter......
3. TESLA SAID .......... on and on for years.

For years!! ......that's long term.... or do you call that short term?


Let me ask you a question..... where is that FSD car as it travels from California to New York?

 

[Reality]

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.


Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!


The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.


All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.


Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!


The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.


All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

I didn't understand....can you be clearer? LOL

I suppose mining for Coal and establishing Nuclear plants is far more acceptable by the environment. LOL

Pumping the stock price? ....did you see the stock price today?....how about for the past few months?


Last question.......Why are you in a Tesla forum? lol

 

[JRP3]

How many long term shareholders do you know?

Quite a few. Most are more patient than you seem to be.

I'm one of them and I have concerns.

What concerns?

1. TESLA SAID they WILL be profitable in......XYZ quarter.
2. TESLA SAID they will deliver this car and that one.......in XYZ quarter.\
3. TESLA SAID that autopilot will be XYZ in .......MNO quarter......
3. TESLA SAID .......... on and on for years.

For years!! ......that's long term.... or do you call that short term?

I call that Tesla. They are transforming multiple industries at once, it won't always go as planned. I don't think you ever understood the company you invested in. If I don't like the direction a company is heading in or the way management works I sell the stock.

Let me ask you a question..... where is that FSD car as it travels from California to New York?

Late, like everything else. Again, this is Tesla. Either make your peace with that or sell your shares, nothing else makes any sense.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Quite a few. Most are more patient than you seem to be.


I call that Tesla. They are transforming multiple industries at once, it won't always go as planned. I don't think you ever understood the company you invested in. If I don't like the direction a company is heading in or the way management works I sell the stock.


Late, like everything else. Again, this is Tesla. Either make your peace with that or sell your shares, nothing else makes any sense.

Oh stop. I've held my shares for years. Impatient? Really? I can pretty much bet my house that I'm in the top 5% of shareholders ( quantity and duration ) in this forum. This gives me the right to speak my mind.
BTW.....did you cast your vote recently?

Tesla = Late? Tesla = miss after miss? Is that what you are saying?

I should sell my stock?...wrong way to look at it.....Tesla shouldn't have gone public and stayed private if they or you didn't want anyone's opinion to count. Like this nut case - Jing Zhao’s

High-roller investor with a whole 12 shares of TSLA wants Elon gone

 

[jeffro01]

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.


Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!


The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.


All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

You have to be joking, right? If you're serious then you're either insane or clinically delusional... Please seek professional help...

Jeff

 

[JRP3]

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.

Then you stopped being rational.

Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!

The speed and acceleration are simply a side benefit of creating a long range EV, which is the only kind which will actually sell. Lithium mining is mostly letting salt piles dry in desert environments, and a lithium ion battery pack is only about 2% lithium. Tesla's NCA cell chemistry uses less cobalt than other OEM's and most cobalt is produced as a byproduct of existing copper and nickle mines. If you have a problem with those mining operations you better not use any electronic devices, and I'll expect you to immediately disappear from this forum and the internet and go live as a stone age gatherer, unless of course you're just a hypocrite. By the way, the flamethrowers were propane weed burners reconfigured as flame throwers. I assume you also hate companies selling weed burners and the people who buy them.

The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.

Tesla has singlehandedly sped up the move to electric propulsion and grid energy storage which will make transportation and power generation much cleaner. They are forcing other OEM's to speed up their efforts as well. The fact that you can't see that says volumes about your thought process.

All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

You reveal much about yourself with that unhinged irrational rant. You don't understand Tesla or Elon at all and obviously have not done any actual research to challenge your assumptions.

 

[JRP3]

Oh stop. I've held my shares for years. Impatient? Really? I can pretty much bet my house that I'm in the top 5% of shareholders ( quantity and duration ) in this forum. This gives me the right to speak my mind.
BTW.....did you cast your vote recently?

Tesla = Late? Tesla = miss after miss? Is that what you are saying?

I should sell my stock?...wrong way to look at it.....Tesla shouldn't have gone public and stayed private if they or you didn't want anyone's opinion to count. Like this nut case - Jing Zhao’s

High-roller investor with a whole 12 shares of TSLA wants Elon gone

So you're throwing in with a nut case? I didn't say you don't have the right to speak your mind, I clearly said if you don't like the way a company is managed a rational person sells the stock and moves on. Complain all you want, Tesla and Elon aren't going to change and you aren't going to be happy owning the stock. I'd never stay in a company if I felt that way, it would be irrational.

 

[techmaven]

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.


Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!


The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.


All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

Wow there is so much wrong in this post, it is hard to actually know where to start. Musk and Tesla are moving the needle on sustainable transport... not just token stuff. And it takes money and selling something so that people want to do the “right” thing and put their money into it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

So you're throwing in with a nut case? I didn't say you don't have the right to speak your mind, I clearly said if you don't like the way a company is managed a rational person sells the stock and moves on. Complain all you want, Tesla and Elon aren't going to change and you aren't going to be happy owning the stock. I'd never stay in a company if I felt that way, it would be irrational.

Do you invest at all? Investing isn't emotional. Its logical. It has nothing to do with feelings. I always hated apple, but on the way up the stock ladder I held a ton of it.

Come on now.

Tesla is always late.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always missing targets.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always promising and not delivering......but they move the stock needle.

Guess what.......I'm even going to buy one as I waited in line for one on 3/31 for 5 hours.

 

[roblab]

How many long term shareholders do you know? I'm one of them and I have concerns.

What concerns?

1. TESLA SAID they WILL be profitable in......XYZ quarter.
2. TESLA SAID they will deliver this car and that one.......in XYZ quarter.\
3. TESLA SAID that autopilot will be XYZ in .......MNO quarter......
3. TESLA SAID .......... on and on for years.

For years!! ......that's long term.... or do you call that short term?

Let me ask you a question..... where is that FSD car as it travels from California to New York?

For years!!! Are you kidding me? I've been here for nearly six years. And I have understood that what "TESLA SAYS" is their goal. There were no promises, no contracts with you. If you desire to listen to the weather news and then complain that they missed the forecast, after knowing that missing forecasts is what they do, well....

For all those here who think Elon, or any other management, is lying, why in the world are you here? Listen. He's telling you what he wants to do, and when he wants to do it. Anyone who takes it any other way is delusional.

 

[roblab]

Do you invest at all? Investing isn't emotional. Its logical. It has nothing to do with feelings. I always hated apple, but on the way up the stock ladder I held a ton of it.

Come on now.

Tesla is always late.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always missing targets.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always promising and not delivering......but they move the stock needle.

Guess what.......I'm even going to buy one as I waited in line for one on 3/31 for 5 hours.

Tesla is always promising, and delivering more than any other car company. Tesla makes targets that others won't, or can't, but they hit more targets that way. And they are often late, but they are still here.

Guess what? I already bought ... three. And it wasn't because I stood in line, but that I saw superior technology. Hope you find other reasons to LOVE Tesla. No comparison.

 

[JRP3]

Do you invest at all?

Bought my first TSLA shares around $24.

Investing isn't emotional. Its logical. It has nothing to do with feelings.

My point exactly, your posts are filled with frustration, which is an emotion.

I always hated apple, but on the way up the stock ladder I held a ton of it.

I never bought Apple products but bought the stock myself.

Come on now.

Tesla is always late.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always missing targets.....but they move the stock needle
Tesla is always promising and not delivering......but they move the stock needle.

So there you go, you understand Tesla, yet you expect them not to behave the way you know they will. Irrational.

Guess what.......I'm even going to buy one as I waited in line for one on 3/31 for 5 hours.

You'll probably complain extensively about that as well

 

[Garlan Garner]

For years!!! Are you kidding me? I've been here for nearly six years. And I have understood that what "TESLA SAYS" is their goal. There were no promises, no contracts with you. If you desire to listen to the weather news and then complain that they missed the forecast, after knowing that missing forecasts is what they do, well....

For all those here who think Elon, or any other management, is lying, why in the world are you here? Listen. He's telling you what he wants to do, and when he wants to do it. Anyone who takes it any other way is delusional.

That's just not true. Not true at all. Elon gives dates.

That's why one of the dates Tesla gave for AP 2.0 they are paying out in a lawsuit. No CEO can just blab out any and everything on earnings calls and not expect to be held accountable. Example: what date did he give about Model Y on the Shareholders earnings call? What date did he give about 5K per week on the Shareholders earnings call? Is Tesla going to make those dates? Shareholders own the company.

Tesla Settles Class Action on AP2.0 Delays

I invest in Tesla because of what Elon and company say they are going to do....not because of what they dream about. For goodness sake...the guy wants to populate Mars.....however he has never said that on an earnings call as an objective for Tesla.

I am certainly not against Tesla.....for goodness sake I own over $40K in shares. I'm all in on what they want to do....for the earth and the environment and for transportation. I just want them to either start making the dates or stop promising dates. Stop the class action suits for being late.

 

[kaiserpathos]

Wow there is so much wrong in this post, it is hard to actually know where to start. Musk and Tesla are moving the needle on sustainable transport... not just token stuff. And it takes money and selling something so that people want to do the “right” thing and put their money into it.

Exactly. There's strategic short-selling, and then there's whatever this guy was writing. I think short-sellers sounding this irrational or emotional, with an ax to grind, seem to routinely get squeezed every few quarters.

Regardless, his comment "and they even call it Auto Pilot" really bugs me re: people not using AP in legal terms. It reflects how some investors and the general public think about Auto Pilot vs FSD. The general public does, erroneously, think they're one-in-the-same. Auto TACC and lane-holding live across a ton of luxury automobiles, but you'd think only Tesla has it with statements like his.

While reasonable people can disagree that Tesla has not made enough effort to educate public perception on what Auto Pilot really IS, and what it is NOT, his comments that Tesla "lied" about Auto Pilot is something I can't really find good evidence for.

Everyone hears the Aviation analogy, but it's true: in decades past the term & technology "Auto Pilot" belonged to planes, and AP was not a "fully autonomous self-flying" technology. General public understood otherwise, but the truth is airplane AP limits were altitude changes and "waypoint-to-waypoint" flying. By comparison Tesla wanted people to understand AP's aim was similar, onramp-to-offramp. Sure, I think it's fair to say Tesla probably wasn't super-vigilant at driving that point home early on. Did people use it in the wrong way, and not pay attention to the car's operation? Yes. But AP was a "lie"? No.

FAA says flight decks must still be manned and monitored during Auto Pilot operation. Even so, this resulted in better-rested pilots the past few decades and a net improvement in flight safety. Taking the analogy to its conclusion: the angriest investors seem to say that wasn't Tesla's intention for Auto Pilot -- they point to any/every AP accident and yell "see? Tesla lied?". I'm not buying it. FSD is a completely different animal to Auto Pilot, and Tesla has worked more these past two years to make that very clear for perspective buyers.

Back on aviation: newer planes have recently become, technically, able to fly "gate-to-runway and beyond" unattended -- not just "waypoint-to-waypoint" if we want -- but nobody really WANTS this, of course, in a passenger airplane. Yet internally Airbus & Boeing do not refer to their overall autonomous flight technology suites as "Auto Pilot" in their next-gen planes.

Tesla's AP marketing is not a lie, it simply (and accurately) took its aim and description from aviation technology from the last century. FSD is the animal that journalist (and angry investors) with axes to grind are equating with AP -- every time there has been an accident. While I would agree Tesla needed to do more in marketing/education of AP early on, they never lied about it.

I think our short seller here is, if we're being truly honest, in a group finds it too inconvenient to admit that the technology and solutions Tesla is developing are difficult no matter who or what company is developing it. Tesla just gets a special ire (in my opinion, usually unfair) either for their CEO's cult-of-personality or because they were hitting several "firsts" that other energy and transport companies have refused to pursue (until Tesla pursued it).

 

[luvb2b]

could you print your post and show it to your wife?

i'm curious what she would think of all this, considering you had mentioned she's a huge tesla fan.

Short Seller here


I will answer this question honestly.


I am pro green energy and pro EVs in general and I definitely cross the line from shorting Tesla to outright hating them.


Tesla is a dishonest company that is doing far more harm to our environment than good. Mining lithium and cobalt is not good for our environment in the quantities currently required for battery technology (PHEV far better for our environment, but they arent as fast!). Neither is selling huge butane lighters and calling them flamethrowers or ~creating super enormous batteries to make your cars extra fast!


The entire concept of 'helping the planet' is farce, and Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount. Im sure you think they do but they don't. The price/quality of batteries and the affordability of EVs will dictate mass adoption, nothing else. If you think tesla is good at mass producing cars for cheap, well....lol.


All of that is not why I hate Tesla though, I hate Tesla because they lie. I hate them because the only goal they have is to pump stock price and enrich themselves (really Musk and his cronies), all the while sucking up government funding that could go to actually helping the environment. I mean literally we are subsidizing cars for people that can afford 100k cars. That money could be spent in so many better ways if it is truly meant to help the environment. Right now taxpayers are funding the lifestyle of elon musk and the toys for the rich, if you think anything else you are either not intelligent or willfully uninformed.


Combine that with phony timelines and promising things that they know are not possible, resulting in killing people who they then blame for not using the product according to the legal terms (even though they call it auto pilot). All of that really bothers me because I hate lying and deception. If you don't see it, it's because you just dont want to.


This is why i want Tesla, but more specifically, Musk, to fail. The sad part is no matter what im pretty sure he walks away from this hyper rich and many people, including many on this site, will walk away with a significant hole in their finances.

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla does not affect the adoption of EVs any nominal amount