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Why has Tesla's charging advice changed

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even then car often not at home to exploit solar.
...meaning even on weekends the car is typically in use while the sun is shining.

The difference between off peak and FiT for me is 10c/kwh
On an annulalised basis is say 20,000 km @ 11kWh per 65km = 3384kWh
This is a measly $338 per year. Yes, everything adds up, but for $338 per year, I would rather just plug it in when the car arrives back in the garage and just charge and be ready in the morning by 0600
 
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I've noticed with the latest software update that the daily charging recommendation on the screen is 50% to 80%. Before it was up to 90%. The Tesla charging FAQ says plug your car in as much as possible whereas much advice online recommends only plug in when necessary and keep the battery between 20% and 80%. Any ideas on what is correct because I'm confused.This is for the NMC battery .
We always charge at home 80% for daily use. Only 100% when we take a road trip from San Diego to L.A. to visit Grandma
 
Or only superchargers?
Technically you don't need preconditioning for Supercharging (AKA DC fast charging). It just means the battery chemistry is less "reactive" when it's cooler. You can still charge at a Supercharger or DC fast charger with a non preconditioned battery - it's just slightly slower until the battery heats up.

Currently there is no obvious way to precondition for charging at a non Tesla Supercharger, other than tricking the car that it's navigating to a Tesla SC but you are actually going to a nearby non Tesla DC charger
 
Tesla didnt change it universally. The LFP in the standard 3/y remains the same.

Only the TERNARY batteries are changed. Those with N C or M or A type materials.

If you understand the basics of ternary battery degradation in capacity and power loss, youll understand why Tesla did it

1. SoC matters allot. This calendar aging matters way more than cyclic aging. SoC should be as low as possible. There is a pain point beyond around 55-60% (depends on the mix of N C or M or A in the cathode chemistry) with going higher
2. The temperature @ SoC matters allot. Should be as low as possible. In sub freezing conditions embrace the chill the capacity loss is not permanent its eliminated on normal temps again.
3. No harm is done at 20, 10, 5% SoC. Tesla fudge it all anyway, the displayed SoC is not true SoC so even @ 0% you wont be empty. You cant actually make a Tesla battery truly empty - there are emergencies in place to prevent it, it will disconnect the HV bank before. Same with Tesla display of 100% SoC - it isnt 100% its more like actually 95% true SoC. Why? Because again Tesla do idiot proof and protect the battery bank its a big costly assembly in the vehicle - amongst the most costly assemblies. So automatically by having a Tesla you wont be ay 97% true soc and you wont be at 2% true soc ever.
4. If your diving use case means you must have the range above 55-60%, then optimum is too time the high charge level to when you are departing so the actual volume in time of high SoC states is minimal
5. Tesla have some idiot proof stuff. Like, you cant fully deplete the HV bank itll cut out before. Consumers like sentry mode get turned off at lower SoC points. You cant over charge the bank and therefore over heat the bank from this either. If you are an abusive owner and your always doing high rate fast DC charging, Tesla will on their surperharger network, mark your VIN to ensure DC charging on superchargers is at a de-rated level for the sake of battery life.
6. Keep your vehicle on charge with the SoC goal manually set especially in hot climates. Cool the battery on AC. In extreme heat find shelter plug it in.
7. C rates. Ternary batteries dont like C rates that are multiples. Like 2C, 3C etc. So LR/P 80kw approx bank, 160, 240 kw etc. Fractional C rates are preferred. So 50KW, 22KW, 11KW, 7.4KW etcetc
8. Shallow depth of discharge. Meaning, plug it in. charge. multiple times. Avoid deep discharge.
9. Generally, calendar aging is mostly important with where the SoC is most times over 24 hours 7 days 52 weeks etcetc and the environmental temperature. C Rates and cyclic aging are nice to haves but not as important as the calendar age factors.
10. Never overheat the battery at the track

But all this said, in ternary batteries you can pretty much do whatever random clueless stuff you can imagine and still be OK all and all for the warranty in Aus @ 70% remaining of original. So if your not keeping the vehicle and not preserving it for the next owner, none of it matters. Charge it to 100% and only on superchargers and Tesla will do things to those hapless owners all the while they wont ever notice Tesla have derated them on dc fast and done other things to prevent a bank replacement. Tesla dont want to say anything and not have any rules and just have it cruisey and simple. It really isnt, but thats marketing for you. Tesla is very very good at cooling their batteries and very good at how they manage the systems to protect the battery.
 
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Currently there is no obvious way to precondition for charging at a non Tesla Supercharger, other than tricking the car that it's navigating to a Tesla SC but you are actually going to a nearby non Tesla DC charger
But but officer the only reason I was doing 200KLMH in a 60 zone was because I was manually preconditioning - see its legit like here I am at the NRMA fast charger dear officer.
 
I charge to 80% most nights, except when it's already close to that and I don't need to drive much tomorrow. Rarely if ever need to go above 80% even when there's a road trip coming up, as the superchargers are always within reach, and it's a waste of time turning up and going straight into charge rate limiting.
 
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Coming from RC electric battery background - seems weird to me to want a storage charge level so low - generally (for any lithium chem battery) you would store at 70% - and transport at 30% - you never want to let them spend time actually flat.
There is no generally with different lithium ion cathode chemistries. It’s too wide and diverse in character in important ways like there can’t be any generalisation with lfp and ncma

This is why going on the science is key - assuming things on hunches or opinion with conclusions without sound data just isn’t the way to go. In ternary batteries storing at 70% or 80% or 90% is a very bad idea from an optimum calendar life perspective. Tesla in trying to make it simple when it’s not and in trying to give huge range in their vehicles pick a very very low ballpark warranty with 70% performance left or they swap it. On top of them derating VINs for abusive customers they pretty much have it all sewn up entirely and they know precisely what they’re doing long term with this stuff and their liability.

Same with precision on language. 15% 10% 5% SoC isn’t flat. Especially considering the Tesla fudge factors vs actuals in SoC. An owner can’t ordinarily make a Tesla battery go flat there’s idiot mechanisms in place. You’d have to craft up an elaborate plot to actually make it go flat and it would be quite time consuming to do so over numerous days. And all that would be entirely telling in the dtcs being recorded fir the vin pointing to deliberate sabotage and denied warranty claim.

It’s pretty interesting to read the research and results. Doubts really don’t exist around the facts of how aging happens in these chemistries. Where it’s at is preventing reducing eliminating the mechanisms that cause this, and at the same time improving energy density and other key characteristics. I especially find new innovations exciting to read about and think on the implications for the future. It’s only going to get allot better for BEVs in decades ahead from where it’s pretty much awesome now
 
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I would do what tesla recommend and ignore anything from Elon. I also suggest the advice is changed as they have found evidence that the changes improve the health or longevity of the battery during the warranty period. I really cannot think of any other reason.
I agree. Ignore Elon and follow the advice from Tesla.

Also bear in mind that historically Tesla was very invested in ternary Lithium chemistries (NCA/NMC 18650, 21700, 4680). I imagine that Elon Musk probably wanted to downplay any degradation concerns to establish consumer confidence. But now that Tesla carry multiple chemistries including LFP they have probably become more conservative on NMC/NCA to minimise warranty claims.

I've used many lithium chemistries in the hobby R/C world and all the battery manufacturers recommend keeping ternary cells at 40-50% SOC for storage to maximise life.
 
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all the battery manufacturers recommend keeping ternary cells at 40-50% SOC for storage to maximise life.
It's all about dwell time at particular SoC.
So - if need 100% charge to 100% but minimise time at that SoC such as drive soon after getting to 100%. Also as I charge between 30/40-50% SoC my average SoC is around 40% SoC.

If there was going to be a fire, there will be less energy to dissipate from a 40% battery than one with higher SoC

Also My summer average SoC will be lower than winter average SoC. Cold is Gold for batteries Hot is Not.

Unfortunately auto stop charging can't be below 50% so lower than 50% charging limit will need manual stop.

Tesla service manuals do suggest 30-50% SoC for transporting its batteries.
 
If you understand the basics of ternary battery
👍👍👍. I sense you ate your weet bix this morning👍👍👍.

Fractional C rates are preferred.
A lot of people think multiple charging and discharging causes battery degradation but they don't take into account that AC charging and normal driving (even with a lead foot at times) really is at fractional C rate and for very short periods.

Batteries do very well with fractional C rates. In fact apart from supercharging with DC charger it is very difficult to do > 1C (even with your manual preheating demerit point sapping example) Even with supercharging C drop below 1 fairly quickly.
 
Yes the bank size especially in LR/P makes it harder as a practical matter for non fractional C rates. Regen is limited to approx 75 KW max if things like battery temp is OK etcetc. These sorts of things create the situation where charging rates arent a huge deal unless in extremes of use e.g. abusive worst case owner huge DoD depth and 100% supercharger DC fast charging always. So turns up at SuperCharger v3 or v4, with 5% SoC, pulls down 250KW or close to it for a good whack of the time and while the owners at it, decides to goto 100% SoC too. Yes it will taper down on the C rate but for a good section of the overall charge that owner will pull allot above 1C on the rate. Then rinse repeat that use pattern. Tesla will flag the VIN and pretend nothing is happening in the interests of simple / no rules with no notice to the abusive customer and the hapless owner probably wouldnt even realise any change had occured. He'd probably sell it all fine too on ugrade cos right now, most buyers are clueless and there is no truly effective "battery passport"
 
worst case owner huge DoD depth
The Thai Viking Bjorn Nyland did a YT review on a M3? With significant battery degradation a little while ago. Apparently it was a taxi and exclusively supercharged.

Elon/Tesla is just mitigating the effects of the edge users. I'm blaming the 90-80% change on users because people think the upper charging limit recommendation is THE recommendation.
 
Given the charge curve that superchargers use now - i doubt there is any measurable degradation - li-ion is a pretty mature technology - just look at tool batteries - routinely charged hard, used harder & stored full - and now last years and years.

I would much rather be keeping my car battery in the 30-80% range than trying to pull nearly 5C below 20% SOC.
 
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