Will Life Free Unlimited Supercharging come back?

[MXWing]

Now, it is entirely possible Tesla might "sell" free supercharging as part of an option package in the future. say "pay $4000 when ordering your new Roadster for free unlimited lifetime supercharging." The cost will likely be so high that it would not be of any cost savings for 90% of owners.

I’ve considered if this is a possibility and game theory tells me no because of moral hazard selection.

For example, if Tesla charges $2,500 for it
Only those who plan to exceed $2,500 would buy the option. That hurts Tesla and other owners who need to charge.

If Tesla charges $5,000 for it, no one will buy it and will have an unintended consequence.

Tesla is signaling the benefit is worth $5,000.

What this does is it boost used Tesla values as owners can add up to $4,000 to their listings if they have a vehicle where supercharging follows the car.

With the incentive to shop second hand market, Tesla loses new sales.

They really should end this for good. Although Tesla owners have no recourse if Tesla decides to 180 on this again.

 

[callmehere]

I hope they implement a grandfather clause for current Tesla owners to keep their FUSC to future Tesla cars, once I upgrade to my next Tesla in 5-8 years, I would hate to lose my FUSC, especially since I'd be continuing my support for the company

 

[Maximilien]

I hope they implement a grandfather clause for current Tesla owners to keep their FUSC to future Tesla cars, once I upgrade to my next Tesla in 5-8 years, I would hate to lose my FUSC, especially since I'd be continuing my support for the company

When Tesla brought it back sometime in 2017, the original S & X owners were thinking they were going to get this FUSC for their life.

I was happy that I would be grandfathered for any future S or X purchases but it does not seem that case anymore. Also, Tesla changed the wordings so much that I would not bet on it.

 

[Bebop]

I hope they implement a grandfather clause for current Tesla owners to keep their FUSC to future Tesla cars, once I upgrade to my next Tesla in 5-8 years, I would hate to lose my FUSC, especially since I'd be continuing my support for the company

That would be awesome. Hopefully they make that change at the very least.

 

[schonelucht]

If Tesla plans to implement solar to it's stations, I don't think free supercharging will matter anymore since electricity will be so much more cheaper with solar than it is now.

Busier superchargers use 10MWh per day and it’s only going to get worse. You can’t generate that much unless you use dramatically more surface area which isn’t cheap.

 

[gilscales]

This maybe be selfish on my part but since I do not have FUSC for life and I see many people with it abuse the use by charging to 100% in areas heavily populated with the S and the X (In my brief travels to expensive coastal areas away from my home charging reach) I hope it does go away for good as I really like road trips a lot more now and want to do more traveling.

Yes it is a selfish reason but I do believe that if I had this perk I would not charge just because it is free, I have over 11,000 miles in less than 5 months and LOTS of road trips in the car with less than $200 for supercharging fees so far, seems cheap to me and I am guessing most people here do not charge like some do but it seems to only take a few people willing to spend many hours of their lives to save a few dollars to clog up certain areas, lucky for me I live by lots of them so I never find myself needing them but on a road trip it can be irritating to wait in line.

Tesla needs to stay ahead of the demand for charging as the 3 rolls out in larger numbers or the appeal of the network will wear off if there is always a wait, this is why I am in favor of a pay per use system, to make it more readily available for travelers away from their home charging.

 

[Chaz]

When Tesla started installing the supercharger network, vehicles were provided "free lifetime long distance charging". It appears Tesla expected owners to use the superchargers only during road trips, with the superchargers installed originally between cities.

What they evidently didn't anticipate is two groups of heavy supercharger users - commercial operators doing daily supercharging and owners without any easy access to overnight charging using urban superchargers for their charging.

It seems highly unlikely we'll see lifetime FUSC (Free Unlimited Supercharging) return, because Tesla never intended to provide lifetime charging for free for commercial operators or urban supercharger users.

However, it does seem likely we'll see Tesla provide some form of lifetime FLSC (Free Limited Supercharging), that would cover annual supercharging for most owners (charging for excess charging). Initially that was 400KWh per year - now it's $100 per year, which is likely enough to cover annual supercharging for most owners.

I totally agree. Although I would add a third group of heavy supercharger users that Tesla did not expect - those that used a SC as a premium parking spot at high-traffic venues (now mitigated by SC idle fees, of course).

 

[boonedocks]

If I didnt have a Tesla I would have spent $400. If I was paying for supercharging my driving habits would likely be different. I was only calculating savings over gas, not savings over free vs paid supercharging.

I misread brakaus's message if that's what he meant!

If Tesla needed a reason to end FUSC for life that statement above embodies what offering something for "FREE" does with human nature!!!


Twitter quote from Elon from a question asking if FUSC will come back. Enough said. See what abuse does to the system.
"Sorry, it’s not really sustainable at volume production & doesn’t incent optimal behavior. We probably should have ended this earlier.

 

[Lasttoy]

I take trips monthly. Sometimes weekly. I could never travel like this before i got my OLD S. I have gone to over 20 states.
In retirment this is a wonderful feature. I have a lot of old folks traveling. One man said his gas savings paid each night in a hotel.
I hope Elon does not take away my FUSC.

 

[Chancellor32]

Glad its gone, too many people using it for daily charging instead of charging at home. Hence SD is a nightmare for charging due to locals not charging at home. We should all pay our fair share to charge going forward. Im glad I have FUSC currently but its not that much of a factor to stop me from getting a newer one in a few years without it.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

"Sorry, it’s not really sustainable at volume production & doesn’t incent optimal behavior. We probably should have ended this earlier.

I think the behavior he is referring to is locals charging, but I freely admit that fuel economy is not something I ever consider with the Tesla. With solar at home, my energy is always free.

 

[efusco]

Would love to see it come back as a referral reward...

 

[whitex]

One man said his gas savings paid each night in a hotel.

He probably compared to driving a motorhome, or staying in real cheap hotels. You should have suggested he compare what he paid for his Tesla vs. buying a Bugatti Chiron, then he could stay in really, really nice hotels.

Comparing free supercharging to gas savings is irrelevant here. When people say "take free supercharging away" they mean "make it paid", not "not allow any supercharging at all", therefore a valid comparison is "paid supercharging" to "free supercharging". Even if you put 600 miles on car in a day (12+ hrs of highway driving?), that's ~200KWh, so between $20-$40 supercharging cost, still cheaper than gas.

 

[whitex]

When Tesla started installing the supercharger network, vehicles were provided "free lifetime long distance charging".

That is not how they put it. Website didn't call it "long distance charging" at first, even Tesla CTO told students at one of the guest lectures he was giving how they could never ever pay to drive a Tesla because they could just fill up every day at a free supercharger. Of course sales people in stores picked up the same line when selling cars. So, if the sales people tell you something, the CTO says the same thing, why wonder why people think it? It took Tesla some time to figure out. Their first "long distance supercharging" concept for for all cars to use superchargers only for travel (hence there was no paid option), but that limited their target market to people with access to home charging, so they had to change that strategy too.

All that said, free supercharging may still make an appearance as a sales lever, probably not transferable. It will be more like "pre-paid" supercharging for as long as you own the car - instead of giving you $2K discount, they'll give you free supercharging. They may even limit the free supercharging to some number of KWh per year (akin to "unlimited" cell phone plans).

 

[Maximilien]

Would love to see it come back as a referral reward...

There is a possibility that can happen.

 

[Maximilien]

That is not how they put it. Website didn't call it "long distance charging" at first, even Tesla CTO told students at one of the guest lectures he was giving how they could never ever pay to drive a Tesla because they could just fill up every day at a free supercharger. Of course sales people in stores picked up the same line when selling cars. So, if the sales people tell you something, the CTO says the same thing, why wonder why people think it? It took Tesla some time to figure out. Their first "long distance supercharging" concept for for all cars to use superchargers only for travel (hence there was no paid option), but that limited their target market to people with access to home charging, so they had to change that strategy too.

All that said, free supercharging may still make an appearance as a sales lever, probably not transferable. It will be more like "pre-paid" supercharging for as long as you own the car - instead of giving you $2K discount, they'll give you free supercharging. They may even limit the free supercharging to some number of KWh per year (akin to "unlimited" cell phone plans).

Yes, Tesla should have come with the term, "Long Distance Charging". But it worked as a marketing leverage when there were few Teslas back in 2012-2014. Also it is not easy to stop people from local supercharging.

Some early Tesla owners were using supercharger like a private parking because there were very few then. No penalty for not removing the car after the charge was done. It wasn't a problem in the beginning. But it is a problem now in urban areas, especially. I can't believe time has changed so much since then.

 

[bob_p]

I don't have a copy of the old website pages. As I recall, the Model S specifications page stated something like "Free long distance driving on the supercharger network". [Maybe someone has a copy of the earlier website pages???]

If you look back at Tesla's initial 2012 & 2013 announcements (first announcement), the superchargers were being provided to make "electric long distance travel at no cost".

In the second announcement, it states "Supercharging enables Tesla Model S drivers to travel long distances, for free, indefinitely."

In the third announcement on the first Norway superchargers - "...that enable Model S owners to conveniently travel for free between cities along well-traveled highways throughout the country."

In the fourth announcement for the expansion of the Europe network - "... will offer Model S owners free, fast charging for convenient long distance drives throughout Europe … All our Superchargers are located near amenities like roadside restaurants, cafes and shopping centresso that road trippers can stop for a quick meal while their Model S charges for free."

And in the fifth announcement (in October 2013), it states that the newest superchargers "enable Model S owners to travel for free between San Diego, California and Vancouver, British Columbia."

It wasn't until later that Tesla began talking about urban superchargers, and then began planning to start charging for use of the superchargers, with some charging provided free with the purchase of a Tesla.

Tesla initially included supercharging as standard on the S 85 models and it was an extra cost option ($2500?) on the S 60 models. Tesla later changed the policy to include supercharging on all models. Based on the initial S 60 pricing of the supercharging option, plus the free lifetime long distance supercharging, Tesla evidently believed the per car cost for the supercharger infrastructure and energy costs, over the lifetime of the car would be no more than $2500. Which is likely true if used only for long distance road trips. But if used for daily supercharging for commercial vehicles or for all charging of vehicles without access to overnight charging, the per car cost would clearly be higher.

Tesloop reported they had a Model S with over 400,000 miles, estimating they saved around $40,000 in fuel costs, compared to an ICE. Doubt Tesla expected anyone to use a supercharger that much...

Agree with maximillien that limited supercharging is likely to be included with a Tesla purchase. Though customers it would look better if the amount of free charging was listed in distance (rated miles or km), and not in a charging cost credit or KWh per year. It sounds more impressive to say "1,000 free supercharging miles per year" than a "$100 annual supercharging credit" or "400 KWh supercharging per year". And it might also make sense for Tesla to provide a larger amount of free supercharging on the higher priced models (3 performance, S/X/Roadster 2.0) than on the $35K Model 3.

 

[Maximilien]

I don't have a copy of the old website pages. As I recall, the Model S specifications page stated something like "Free long distance driving on the supercharger network". [Maybe someone has a copy of the earlier website pages???]

If you look back at Tesla's initial 2012 & 2013 announcements (first announcement), the superchargers were being provided to make "electric long distance travel at no cost".

In the second announcement, it states "Supercharging enables Tesla Model S drivers to travel long distances, for free, indefinitely."

In the third announcement on the first Norway superchargers - "...that enable Model S owners to conveniently travel for free between cities along well-traveled highways throughout the country."

In the fourth announcement for the expansion of the Europe network - "... will offer Model S owners free, fast charging for convenient long distance drives throughout Europe … All our Superchargers are located near amenities like roadside restaurants, cafes and shopping centresso that road trippers can stop for a quick meal while their Model S charges for free."

And in the fifth announcement (in October 2013), it states that the newest superchargers "enable Model S owners to travel for free between San Diego, California and Vancouver, British Columbia."

It wasn't until later that Tesla began talking about urban superchargers, and then began planning to start charging for use of the superchargers, with some charging provided free with the purchase of a Tesla.

Tesla initially included supercharging as standard on the S 85 models and it was an extra cost option ($2500?) on the S 60 models. Tesla later changed the policy to include supercharging on all models. Based on the initial S 60 pricing of the supercharging option, plus the free lifetime long distance supercharging, Tesla evidently believed the per car cost for the supercharger infrastructure and energy costs, over the lifetime of the car would be no more than $2500. Which is likely true if used only for long distance road trips. But if used for daily supercharging for commercial vehicles or for all charging of vehicles without access to overnight charging, the per car cost would clearly be higher.

Tesloop reported they had a Model S with over 400,000 miles, estimating they saved around $40,000 in fuel costs, compared to an ICE. Doubt Tesla expected anyone to use a supercharger that much...

Agree with maximillien that limited supercharging is likely to be included with a Tesla purchase. Though customers it would look better if the amount of free charging was listed in distance (rated miles or km), and not in a charging cost credit or KWh per year. It sounds more impressive to say "1,000 free supercharging miles per year" than a "$100 annual supercharging credit" or "400 KWh supercharging per year". And it might also make sense for Tesla to provide a larger amount of free supercharging on the higher priced models (3 performance, S/X/Roadster 2.0) than on the $35K Model 3.

Interesting...
It's funny how the Tesla's words evolved. When I got my S in Dec. 2016, it was simply "Free Unlimited Supercharging", not "Free Long Distance Supercharging." I wholeheartedly agree with you that Tesla was very confident that the average user would not use a lot of it and made it as a selling point. That may be why Tesla called it "Free Unlimited Supercharging," but abusers on the other hand would believe "oh, I can save electricity cost" and supercharge 24/7, which was not the Tesla's original intention.

Maybe they should have stuck with "Free Long Distance SuperCharging" to be clear but I guess they learned the mistake by changing the name to simply "Free Unlimited SuperCharging (FUSC)".

I am 99.7% confident that we won't see FUSC in 2018 but it sure get interesting as the Federal tax credit gets dwarfed in 2019.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Interesting...
It's funny how the Tesla's words evolved. When I got my S in Dec. 2016, it was simply "Free Unlimited Supercharging", not "Free Long Distance Supercharging." I wholeheartedly agree with you that Tesla was very confident that the average user would not use a lot of it and made it as a selling point. That may be why Tesla called it "Free Unlimited Supercharging," but abusers on the other hand would believe "oh, I can save electricity cost" and supercharge 24/7, which was not the Tesla's original intention.

Maybe they should have stuck with "Free Long Distance SuperCharging" to be clear but I guess they learned the mistake by changing the name to simply "Free Unlimited SuperCharging (FUSC)".

I am 99.7% confident that we won't see FUSC in 2018 but it sure get interesting as the Federal tax credit gets dwarfed in 2019.

I’ve always been amazed that locals bother charging at a Supercharger. I can’t understand being able to afford a $70k+ car and also finding it worth spending an hour at a Supercharger to save $7 in electricity.

 

[bob_p]

Not all Tesla owners have access to convenient overnight charging.

This will probably change over time as the number of EVs increase - until then, especially for Tesla owners without a personal garage, many may have to rely on supercharging or fast public charging - which is why Tesla shifted strategy and has started to deploy urban superchargers. As more people have EVs, multi-family housing will likely start adding charging stations as an amenity (possibly as an added cost feature).

Offering "Free Unlimited Supercharging" was and could still be a great marketing tool - since the other manufacturers won't be able to offer this due to reliance on 3rd party charging networks. And because the vast majority of Tesla vehicles likely use less than $100 of supercharging electricity per year, as long as Tesla can exclude the excessive charging users, the cost of providing this benefit is relatively low - especially for the higher priced models.

Instead of offering free $100 or 400KWh of charging per year, Tesla could address the excess charging by excluding vehicles being used for commercial purposes (ride sharing, taxi, delivery, …) and restrict the amount of 'free" supercharging ($100 per year) that can be done within a reasonable distance from "home" (where the car has been parked overnight for more than two weeks).

Implementing the home radius restriction would cover urban supercharging (those owners without access to overnight charging) and would catch almost all commercial users (except someone using a Tesla for long distance services - and no one may be doing that with an S/3/X).

And, Tesla really should require all owners to agree to Terms and Conditions for Supercharger Usage, which would make it clear the intended use of the superchargers, and what penalties an owner may face if they abuse the superchargers (such as regularly parking at charging spots after charging has been completed, subject to suspension of supercharging privileges).