Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[scottf200]

Faith in Tesla | Forums | Tesla Motors

FAITH IN TESLA

rossRallen | SEPTEMBER 2, 2015

I spoke to a Tesla Rep today at the Fremont factory. I was calling my nearby Tesla dealer, and they didn't pick up so it rang through to the factory.<snip>
Also, to my dismay, he said that the second row seats don't fold flat.
"Really?" I said.
"Yes," said he. Maybe different in the standard X, but he didn't know.

...which of course conflicts with...

Image: http://i.imgur.com/TxqHrWu.png

email date:	Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 7:33 AM
subject:	Model X Update

You’ll also be able to fold down the second and third rows to create a flat platform for storage.

 

[Zoomit]

Or move in a smooth arc, where it moves forward and rotates, like a quarter circle. If it were to move out first, it might block third row.

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I wonder if the top of the pedestal isn't fixed to the bottom of the seat, rather it's on a curved track similar to the fore/aft track on the floor. Tough to get it all strong enough, but that would create an interesting way to move the seat out of the way of someone getting in the third row.

It's going to be a crazy mechanism to make the seat rotate outward. As someone mentioned a few days ago, the seat probably needs to move up, then rotate outward. Due to the angle of the seatback, it would interfere with the middle seat if it just tried to rotate without raising first.

I have a few ideas about the kinematics, but to make a robust and safe mechanism fit under that seat will be mighty impressive. And honestly there will be a lot of people that dismiss it as simple and will not recognize the engineering that went into it. I'm sure the doors were a lot more work, but a rotating seat will be an achievement as well.

 

[ohmman]

I have to ask why people might like the seats to rotate outward. I am genuinely curious if I'm missing something. One application I can imagine is children under 4 or 5 who are unable to buckle themselves in, but one of the selling points of the falcon wing doors was that the owner could stand upright and buckle their children in without twisting. We definitely have the falcon wing doors, so I think that potential issue is covered. The other application would be for disabled or elderly, and that's some not insignificant portion of the population. However, I can't imagine it's enough to go through the engineering feats that are being described here.

I don't buy that it makes for easier ingress for most of the populace. Having to wait for an automated rotation, or worse, manually rotate the seat, then climb in, and have to secure it back - this seems like a pointless maneuver.

It's possible I'm missing something, anyone want to fill me in?

 

[Zoomit]

I'm curious too. If it's a real thing, I suspect a major reason is to have a new gee-whiz feature, but I'm not sure how frequently it'll be used. Besides, how big is the market for $100k vehicles optimized for young families?

 

[AnOutsider]

Faith in Tesla | Forums | Tesla Motors


...which of course conflicts with...

Image: http://i.imgur.com/TxqHrWu.png
View attachment 93194

email date:	Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 7:33 AM
subject:	Model X Update

Faith indeed. I read the whole convo you leaked, and it sadly sounds much like what sigs heard back with the Model S. Have faith. We're going to do good things for you. yadda yadda. Nowadays it's just "well it wasn't on your due bill right? so it wasn't promised to you".

As for the conflicting info, Tesla can easily say that that configuration shown is the non-independently moving seats that are not available with sigs (or, since it's Tesla, they could ya know.. just say nothing and leave us to figure it all out on our own).

 

[lucy]

Faith in Tesla | Forums | Tesla Motors


Image: http://i.imgur.com/TxqHrWu.png
View attachment 93194

This photo is why I plopped down 5 g's for a car that was vaporware & mortgaged my house for solar panels.
all of the other stuff (performance, styling, made in USA, etc) are ways to rationalize it to myself & others.
If it was a lie, I just don't know...

 

[Yggdrasill]

This photo is why I plopped down 5 g's for a car that was vaporware & mortgaged my house for solar panels.
all of the other stuff (performance, styling, made in USA, etc) are ways to rationalize it to myself & others.
If it was a lie, I just don't know...

I feel confident the standard 2nd row seats will fold. Or at least hopeful...

As I said previously, if neither 2nd row seat configuration stows flat, I'll be cancelling my reservation. But I just can't believe Tesla has scewed things up that badly.

 

[Paul Carter]

I feel confident the standard 2nd row seats will fold. Or at least hopeful...

As I said previously, if neither 2nd row seat configuration stows flat, I'll be cancelling my reservation. But I just can't believe Tesla has scewed things up that badly.

Very hopeful here as well. Don't jump the gun yet. We don't know. If they don't I'll decide after knowing how much depth there actual is when they are moved fully forward. IMHO: If they comprised on that then they might want to take Utility off as the first word on the product "Utility, Style and Performance".

 

[lucy]

I feel confident the standard 2nd row seats will fold. Or at least hopeful...

As I said previously, if neither 2nd row seat configuration stows flat, I'll be cancelling my reservation. But I just can't believe Tesla has scewed things up that badly.

Very hopeful here as well. Don't jump the gun yet. We don't know. If they don't I'll decide after knowing how much depth there actual is when they are moved fully forward. IMHO: If they comprised on that then they might want to take Utility off as the first word on the product "Utility, Style and Performance".

Agree with you both, hope there are non-work-of-art production row 2 seats that are more functional & practical, and will fold flat.
Since I read that the Sig seats would not fold, I've been trying to decide if I want to get a micro RV to tow &/or switch to the MS. I guess it's a blessing that I'm months away from configuration, plenty of time for the details to be revealed and to obsess. (ô‿ô)

 

[Paul Carter]

Agree with you both, hope there are non-work-of-art production row 2 seats that are more functional & practical, and will fold flat.
Since I read that the Sig seats would not fold, I've been trying to decide if I want to get a micro RV to tow &/or switch to the MS. I guess it's a blessing that I'm months away from configuration, plenty of time for the details to be revealed and to obsess. (ô‿ô)

Umm.. just read this over here, does not bode well: First Production Cars Delivered Sep 29 at Factory per Elon Tweet - Page 4

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Or they'll replace the second row as soon as they get the new ones in / figured out --- ala Model S performance seats

If so, wouldn't they advertise the folding seats and just ship the car with temporary seats like on the P85D? Now they are advertising the non-folding second row as a special feature of Model X Signature.

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Wasn't the speculation that Eds was from the seat subcontractor?

And he claimed early Model Xs were compromised?

And Elon at GM/CC said getting the second row right was hard?

Adding 1+1+1...

Maybe the Signatures will have "lesser" seats compared to future Model X models? Or less functional seats up-designed a bit to make them feel more premium while lacking features?

Just silly speculation of course.

I guess that's POSSIBLE... but seems unlikely to me. I think that if the sigs only have the option of individually-moving seats, it's because Tesla considers them (like the Performance motor) to be top-tier premium items and that's what they want in their sigs.

The problem I have with this is that the original Model X folding prototype second row already was individually moving and folding. It seems like, if non-folding is true, it was left out for some reason. Manufacturing issues might be one such reason.

Hopefully if Model X Signatures are to have "lesser" second row, they at least have some redeeming qualities like perhaps seat ventilation that folding second row might not have? That might fit with your speculation, having a non-folding ventilated second row as a premium option.

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Here we go again....

Well if he was maybe he should have gotten on with his work instead of trolling on TMC?

This is not about Eds, but about using any and all potential data we might have.

In a nosecone thread I would discuss throwawayaccount and the September leakster, not Eds.

As for getting on with work, Eds may have given us valuable hints to consider. So, I'm considering them. If they turn out to be useful, then I for one am glad Eds was posting instead of working.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Umm.. just read this over here, does not bode well: First Production Cars Delivered Sep 29 at Factory per Elon Tweet - Page 4

That rules out the premium 2nd row seats for me. Now we'll just have to see how the standard seats are.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That rules out the premium 2nd row seats for me. Now we'll just have to see how the standard seats are.

I think the more pertinent question is: How long will Tesla offer the Signature second row? Will it be a "permanent" option on the Model X with some distinct benefit (say, ventilation) or is it merely a stopgap to manage an early Model X launch despite of issues with folding second row, with new folding premium seating launching quickly after Signatures have shipped?

I mean, the second row was always individually moving and folding on Model X prototypes. What is premium about the non-folding second row offered now? Isn't it logical a folding version of the individually moving second row is in the cards, like it was on the prototypes?

If the non-folding seats are a longer-term option with some distinct benefit, fine. If it is merely going to be replaced by better seats in 2016, prepare for a second round of disgruntled Signature owners on TMC.

 

[Laserbrain]

What is premium about the non-folding second row offered now?

Individual seats move back and forth individual, they have more side support, maybe a more comfortable cushioning...

The biggest plus for me would be individual reclining seats. So a person in the second row could recline his seat to sleep, while the other seats stay upright.

Unfortunately the Model X second row seats seem to be non-reclining seats.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Individual seats move back and forth individual, they have more side support, maybe a more comfortable cushioning...

The biggest plus for me would be individual reclining seats. So a person in the second row could recline his seat to sleep, while the other seats stay upright.

Unfortunately the Model X second row seats seem to be non-reclining seats.

But wouldn't these "premium" seats be worse in that regard too, seeing they don't seem to allow separately tilting backs from seat bases? Maybe they can tilt the entire seat a little? The prototype seats had it all: Individual electric move, folding, separate backrest control from seat cushion etc. These seem worse than the prototype individual seats. My pondering is, will these "premium" seats be replaced by folding, more controllable seats later - if Tesla had issues with those better seats and decided to ship these in the meanwhile?

Just speculation.

 

[muleferg]

This is my wife's Flex. If the X won't do this no X for her.

 

[ecarfan]

I have to ask why people might like the seats to rotate outward... Having to wait for an automated rotation, or worse, manually rotate the seat, then climb in, and have to secure it back - this seems like a pointless maneuver.
It's possible I'm missing something, anyone want to fill me in?

I can envision the outer seats in the second row automatically rotating to face out as the Falcon Wing door is opening so by the time the door is up the seat is facing outwards. So no "waiting". This is what I have been envisioning for the past year every time Elon talks about the X second row seats.
That would make it much easier for parents to install and remove child seats and for people with limited flexibility to get in and out of the second row.
Then as the Falcon Wing door closes the seat automatically rotates back in to face forward.
This automatic rotation could of course be disabled (as the default behavior) in the center touchscreen controls.

 

[ohmman]

This automatic rotation could of course be disabled (as the default behavior) in the center touchscreen controls.

Thanks. I can see it (if I strain a bit), but it's hard for me to see a justification for the resource expenditure to design seats that do this and remain safe. Especially considering my guess that most people would tend to keep it disabled. If the intent was for the disabled, I could potentially see one side doing this, but not both, and again I don't see the market for it.

I suppose time will reveal what's going on. I don't want to see people being disappointed about this particular issue, though. Expectations for interior "features" on the MX seem so high, and I'm not exactly sure why. The MS has one impressive interior feature - the touchscreen. Otherwise, it's somewhat unremarkable inside. I like the minimalist feel, but as far as having anything impressive? I don't see it. So I'm not sure why the MX should have rotating seats that do Nigel's Cirque behind the driver. Someone upthread or in another thread said it clearly. Paraphrasing, MX is going to be a very nice SUV with unique doors and an amazing drivetrain. Expecting more is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Mark Z]

I have it figured out. If Model X had a perfectly flat cargo bed, it would be a more comfortable overnight sleeping location than with Model S. Perhaps Tesla Motors is discouraging overnight stays at the Supercharger or for profit. Tesla Hotel - Sleep in a Tesla on AirBnB | Tesla Renter

Alternatively, having open Falcon Wing doors while Supercharging should give a friendly camping out appearance, especially if the passengers are dining in the car enjoying the shade of the doors and a flow thru breeze. This activity should be popular in Europe. Please, no wine for the driver during your cheese and wine tailgate party.

 

[J1mbo]

Bingo! And the trailer load capacity is exactly as much as you would need for a fully loaded refrigerated beer cooler! Mind.blown.