Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[SeanA]

I'm not holding my breath that the seats will be easily removeable. It doesn't seem to be in Tesla's DNA to do that. Furthermore, the seats will also have electrical connections (power for moving seat forward/back and heating if you choose the cold-weather package). I can't imagine Tesla providing a nice plug to disconnect, followed by quick release lever for removal. Then what would you do with the pedestal?

But I do agree, it would be nice if that were possible.

Add me to the list of people that would love for them to be removeable. It would make my 6 v 7 seat config decision for me. Data point from inside sales is that the seats will not be removeable. I was at least hoping I could yank the middle seat in row two. Nope. Now, answers from inside sales seem to be, uhm, rather fluid - but this one seems a lock.

Sean

 

[tescroft]

Boa, 2nd row seats not being able to fold is so disappointing. The 6-seater without console is just a lame workaround. This was a clear promise in the announcements and prototype demonstrations. I really hope this will be solved soon, otherwise I will eventually cancel my reservation. The first time Tesla deeply disappoints me. I doubt that I will spend 100k on an SUV where the most basic seating functionality does not work as it would be expected from a SUV.

 

[dirkhh]

Boa, 2nd row seats not being able to fold is so disappointing. The 6-seater without console is just a lame workaround. This was a clear promise in the announcements and prototype demonstrations. I really hope this will be solved soon, otherwise I will eventually cancel my reservation. The first time Tesla deeply disappoints me. I doubt that I will spend 100k on an SUV where the most basic seating functionality does not work as it would be expected from a SUV.

Yes, this definitely is a disappointment. Some optimists hope that there will be a new option for a foldable 2nd row seat soon but frankly I don't think that's likely at all. Tesla seems very excited about the 2nd row design with storage under the seats (and the additional leg room that it gives the 3rd row seats). I would be surprised after all the trouble they went through to get this working if they went back to a foldable seat design for the 2nd row. Watch me cheer if I have to say "oops, I was wrong", but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I hope to get to sit in a Model X tomorrow and expect that will give me a better idea if the solution Tesla came up with is a compromise I can get used to...

 

[Mark Z]

When examining Model X during delivery, I brought up the idea of the 2nd row swivel for a six seat version. The seat backs would be next to the Falcon Wing Doors to allow cargo entry in the back. With the seat backs out of the way, the entire area would be clear and the seat bottoms could hold the optional parcel shelf (seldom discussed) that Tesla will offer. That (or some other protection) could help save the seat bottoms from a rip or tear.

OT: My Model X failed to allow the back seats to fold down! They worked again later, but after driving away, they are locked again. Safety trumps convenience in this situation. A manual latch with no locking at the bottom would allow use without repairs. The oddest issue is having to push the hidden button on the leather material to release the latch in both positions. When it is locked at the bottom flat position, it requires gymnastics to reach and lift it from the side, then go to the back unless you have an extra long reach. IMHO, this electric latch might make the rear two seats as troublesome for Tesla as the Model S door handles. I hope they get this corrected before Model III. Now you know why I look concerned in this photo, especially as the seat carpet binds and bends requiring removal of the trunk cargo floor.

 

[smac]

Interesting concept Mark, makes a lot of sense.

Sorry to hear about the trouble with your rear seats. I didn't appreciate they were electronically latched, interesting to know.

(Though I tend to agree a KISS approach might be better long term, esp. for the 3)

 

[tescroft]

Elon Musk mentioned issues with a supplier for the second row seats on a investor call. My guess is that the suppliers 2nd row seats were able to fold, but had some other issues, which would have delayed the car further. I assume a simpler version of the seat could not be developed by the supplier in the remaining time, so Tesla might have decided that they're going to manufacture simple seats themself. Obviously, they did not have enough time to reengineer the folding seats of the supplier and came up with a simpler version, which they are able to manufacture in a short timeframe. This all looks odd to me and seems like a last minute hack to bring this car finally out of the door. It's a pity, it really ruins the car attempt to be the best SUV. I guess we will read about that story in the next biography.

 

[andrewket]

What's worse is that the folding seats will likely come as an option. It's the one thing that had me concerned about confirming my order now, but waiting an indefinite period of time was not possible. Of course had Tesla communicated a date for when folding seats would be ready, it would hurt short term sales.

I'm also annoyed that the 2nd row console that was shown at the reveal is not included. I love Tesla and the mission, but that was borderline deceptive advertising. If you didn't ask the right person to be told "oh, we haven't committed to offering the console yet", one could easily walk away assuming that the console was included with the 6-seater.

 

[fengshui]

Elon Musk mentioned issues with a supplier for the second row seats on a investor call. My guess is that the suppliers 2nd row seats were able to fold, but had some other issues, which would have delayed the car further. I assume a simpler version of the seat could not be developed by the supplier in the remaining time, so Tesla might have decided that they're going to manufacture simple seats themself. Obviously, they did not have enough time to reengineer the folding seats of the supplier and came up with a simpler version, which they are able to manufacture in a short timeframe. This all looks odd to me and seems like a last minute hack to bring this car finally out of the door. It's a pity, it really ruins the car attempt to be the best SUV. I guess we will read about that story in the next biography.

Interesting idea, but I have a different take. I think the challenge with the 2nd row seats is to design and build a seat with integrated seat belts and a single mono-post for support that can meet Elon's requirements for safety. The forces involved in a collision with a 200+ lb person in one of those center seats are very high. You're probably looking at at least 100lbs of weight decelerating against the top seat belt point. Given the lever action on both the monopost and the seat hinge, I think they couldn't design a folding mechanism that could handle the loads. I will also note that nearly every vehicle on the market mounts their seat belts to the frame of the car, and not the seats. I think I saw one luxury SUV mentioned on a TMC thread that had integrated seat belts and a folding seat, but I can't remember where. Even with that one example, the ubiquity of frame-based sealt-belt mounts tells me that the challenges Tesla faced are driven by the the choice to integrate the seatbelts.

 

[dirkhh]

After having sat in the 2nd row and having tried to sit in the 3rd row, it seems pretty clear that the 2nd row seats are here to stay.
The car is just too small. The mono post seat gives a little bit more leg room to people in the 3rd row. A folding 2nd row would make the 3rd row completely unusable except for small children.
The cargo space with 2nd row positioned so that someone can sit there is very disappointing. And even with 2nd row all the way forward it's not much to write home about.
I think this is a case where Tesla way over-promised and under-delivered. There is no feeling at all of "what would you do with all this space". It's "man this feels cramped - where will my stuff fit?"

 

[Mark Z]

After having sat in the 2nd row and having tried to sit in the 3rd row, it seems pretty clear that the 2nd row seats are here to stay...

My suggestion for a Model S foldable bench seat to replace all 5 rear seats in Model X sounds better and better each day for the customers who need it.

The reality is that the Tesla Model X is a spectacular vehicle to drive. I loved the higher ride today on the 5 freeway through Orange County. Autopilot is fantastic. And the sound and comfort are greatly improved. Even the six seat version can work when the seats are in the right position. My only concern is where the locked position is for the second row seat. Since you cannot let someone sit in the 2nd row if the seat is moved forward of the latched position, that limits the flexibility of placing small children in those seats. Sorry kids, it's the back row for you! However the magic of the six row version is the unreal leg space for a single rider in the back and perhaps two if they work the space properly. For those who like to cross legs, it may be the best seat in the house. My friends loved Ludicrous in the rear seats, even if there was hardly enough head room for the tallest of them.

Sure cargo is an issue, but I saw the answer during the delivery. With a six seat interior, if those post mounts could spin to allow the seat back to face the Falcon Wing Doors, you would free up the area for cargo to be place all the way forward. I know, some would want to ride in them that way, but it is one answer with these comfortable seats. And here is the best part, the six seat version allows for entry to the back from the second row, so if the 2nd row spun instead of moved forward, the moving mechanism might be eliminated and only the normal seat movement would take place.**

**(For those unaware, there are two moving mechanisms for each 2nd row seat. The normal electric seat movement for fwd/back/tilt near the post top and the forward and back of the post bottom for full range movement. It's a design beyond the future!)

I wish the best to the Tesla designers and engineers who have created a masterpiece of automotive excellence for Elon Musk. Those who love the design get to join in for a Ludicrous Theme Park like ride. I am enjoying it now and looking forward to the next new design that is released and the whole process starts again.

Who knows, at this point I don't know what my friends will want me to transport them in. They chose the six seat option. They will get to choose to ride in Model S or X for now. That will be a very interesting answer and I look forward to their thoughts on the subject. Perhaps in the end, the Model S will be driven for them on a weekly basis while I get to zoom into the future with Model X. But those Theme Park friends have a love of adventure, I wouldn't doubt they will choose Model X.

 

[aesculus]

After having sat in the 2nd row and having tried to sit in the 3rd row, it seems pretty clear that the 2nd row seats are here to stay.
The car is just too small. The mono post seat gives a little bit more leg room to people in the 3rd row. A folding 2nd row would make the 3rd row completely unusable except for small children.
The cargo space with 2nd row positioned so that someone can sit there is very disappointing. And even with 2nd row all the way forward it's not much to write home about.
I think this is a case where Tesla way over-promised and under-delivered. There is no feeling at all of "what would you do with all this space". It's "man this feels cramped - where will my stuff fit?"

You do realize that the prototype had monopost folding seats. So its not a requirement that they dump the monoposts to design a folding seat per se. Its all up to what they want to engineer. If they got close before it seems doable to me.

 

[Spidy]

My suggestion for a Model S foldable bench seat to replace all 5 rear seats in Model X sounds better and better each day for the customers who need it.

The issue is that the Model X FWDs prevent the seats from being anchored in the same position. You could so some executive style seating with insane legroom and less cargo space, but the question is if anyone wants that. People who want executive style seating usually aren't the ones who want folding seats and a lot of cargo.

Btw. are you suggesting that people would sit in the second row facing the doors while the car is driving?

 

[dirkhh]

You do realize that the prototype had monopost folding seats. So its not a requirement that they dump the monoposts to design a folding seat per se. Its all up to what they want to engineer. If they got close before it seems doable to me.

I have seen comments that were attributed to Tesla that the issue with folding mono post seats was stability and crash safety.
That's why Mark suggests the Model S back seats. Which might in deed be suitable for a five seat configuration. Except for the seat belt attachment point.

What my wife and I need to figure out is if we want a $100+k CUV roughly the size of a Volvo XC60 with futuristic design induced serious compromises on the "utility" part... So I guess CuV

The car is stunning and beautiful and I am sure will drive amazingly well and has no competition at all as there is no other small CuV with >200 mile EV range - but it's unclear to us if that's the size car we were waiting for.

 

[fengshui]

What my wife and I need to figure out is if we want a $100+k CUV roughly the size of a Volvo XC60 with futuristic design induced serious compromises on the "utility" part... So I guess CuV

The car is stunning and beautiful and I am sure will drive amazingly well and has no competition at all as there is no other small CuV with >200 mile EV range - but it's unclear to us if that's the size car we were waiting for.

I don't know if Tesla can make a car much bigger than the X, though. The drag coefficient of the X is 0.24, and the smaller size drives a lot of that low number. The larger SUVs all have drag levels in the 0.35 or higher range. That would cut into range significantly on an EV.

 

[Mark Z]

The issue is that the Model X FWDs prevent the seats from being anchored in the same position. You could so some executive style seating with insane legroom and less cargo space, but the question is if anyone wants that. People who want executive style seating usually aren't the ones who want folding seats and a lot of cargo.

Btw. are you suggesting that people would sit in the second row facing the doors while the car is driving?

I will have to take another look and measure the distance to see if the Model S bench seat would fit in my suggested design.

In regard to the question, the answer is no! The seat back faces the door. That's how the cargo space is created, the seat bottoms are where cargo can be placed. Remember, this is for the six seat version, there is no center seat with this crazy idea. The people would be facing each other, but remember this is only for cargo. Tesla would, IMHO, strictly forbid using seats in that direction.

 

[smac]

I will have to take another look and measure the distance to see if the Model S bench seat would fit in my suggested design.

In regard to the question, the answer is no! The seat back faces the door. That's how the cargo space is created, the seat bottoms are where cargo can be placed. Remember, this is for the six seat version, there is no center seat with this crazy idea. The people would be facing each other, but remember this is only for cargo. Tesla would, IMHO, strictly forbid using seats in that direction.

I used to have a Land rover with rear seats that faced each other, and I'm positive there is no way it would pass any form of modern safety legislation. It was bad enough in a car that did 0-60 eventually

One thought that this concept of the seats spinning on their pedestals does raise to me is why stop at a 90 degree rotation? If they went 180 degrees you would get the equivalent of the executive seating option available in some of the high end minivans used for exec transport (e.g. in EU terms the Merc V Class / VW Caravelle)

I guess at the end of the day the Model X will work really well for some, and not so well for others. I can see as a way to shift people at ludicrous acceleration, with a higher driving position, and more passenger comfort it ticks all the boxes compared to any saloon.

In pure practicality it may lag behind conventional SUV's but then how many big luxury SUV's are just used to transport 1-4 people.

I guess there is an element of an own goal here, in that the Model S is FAR more practical than any of it's competitors in the segment. It is actually bordering on as capable as some of the big SUV's for loading "stuff". I know I've picked up full sized doors in my Model S for example that would never go in an Audi A6/A8, only the Q7.

Personally I can see a chance of swapping my S for an X in 18 months, but I'd keep my beater minivan :redface:

 

[SeanA]

...but I'd keep my beater minivan :redface:

Exactly what we're doing. X on order, keeping the Odyssey for configurability and pure number of passengers in sealbelts. Went with the 6-seater X for better flow and visibility into back row...

 

[nienco2]

After having sat in the 2nd row and having tried to sit in the 3rd row, it seems pretty clear that the 2nd row seats are here to stay.
The car is just too small. The mono post seat gives a little bit more leg room to people in the 3rd row. A folding 2nd row would make the 3rd row completely unusable except for small children.
The cargo space with 2nd row positioned so that someone can sit there is very disappointing. And even with 2nd row all the way forward it's not much to write home about.
I think this is a case where Tesla way over-promised and under-delivered. There is no feeling at all of "what would you do with all this space". It's "man this feels cramped - where will my stuff fit?"

You didn't happen to have taken a photo of the the cargo area with the second row all the way forward and third row flat did you?

 

[nienco2]

You didn't happen to have taken a photo of the the cargo area with the second row all the way forward and third row flat did you?

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=525748dd9175356b1b4c6f5c47c9dd9d&oe=57493F2B

This looks very dissapointing :frown:

 

[Ulabrand]

What about a 4 seat version - without the 2nd row seats?

After having sat in the 2nd row and having tried to sit in the 3rd row, it seems pretty clear that the 2nd row seats are here to stay.
The car is just too small. The mono post seat gives a little bit more leg room to people in the 3rd row. A folding 2nd row would make the 3rd row completely unusable except for small children.
The cargo space with 2nd row positioned so that someone can sit there is very disappointing. And even with 2nd row all the way forward it's not much to write home about.
I think this is a case where Tesla way over-promised and under-delivered. There is no feeling at all of "what would you do with all this space". It's "man this feels cramped - where will my stuff fit?"

Yeah - this was way over-promised and way under-delivered.
My hope is that it will be possible to buy the Model X in a 4 seat version, without the 2nd row seats.
That should be substantially less expensive...
Such configuration would suit my needs perfectly.
If this will not be an option, I think I will wait for other alternatives. Maybe something like the Volkswagen BUDD-e.